Hildabingen and Her Thought Stuff

by Amazing 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  Amazing

  Hello Hilda: In your thread below about "Thought Exeperiments and Bill Bowen, you state the following:

  "I once had a friend who had racial epithets hurled at her by a white man. He was not the only one who showed himself to be a racist. She also went to get a job at a huge prominent corporation in a prosperous country and she did not get the job because she was a certain color. She knows this is the case because the company later got in trouble for discriminationagainstwomen and people of color and were punished by their government. ... From these incidents, I conclude racism is a big problem in the country I am talking about. Do not tell me it is all in my head. White folks are biggots. I have the experience and stats to prove it, hon. ... Hilda in Christ." ... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=27599&site=3

  First, your post has absolutely nothing to do with Bill Bowen, or thought experiments. You are using his name to attract people to your post.

  Second, racism has nothing to do with the JW Pedophile issue, which is what the Silent Lambs program is addressing to mainly help victims.

  There are bigots in all races, religions, and nations, whether Anglo-Saxon, African, Latina, Oriental, Hindu, Indian, etc. Society in general, especially in the western cultures, are addressing this issue openly, and working to at least end the discriminatory effects. Changing hearts is not the government's job, but rather the responsibility of the parents, and ultimately each individual.

  Third, what have you done today to turn attention to helping the children, the victims of JW pedophiles? Are you speaking out against it? If not, why not? Are you helping victims and their parents find attorneys who can assist them in seeking justice in the courts? Or are you just making personal attacks on Bill Bowen for some other reason?

  If you go about attacking a person, perhaps then some direct specifics will do far more good in dealing with it, than vague generalizations or irrelevant propaganda, al la Watchtower-style.

  Lastly, if you want to debate issues, great. Attack the issue, and leave the person out of it. The vast majority of ex-JWs on this and other forums do attack issues related to the Watchtower religion. The religion has opened itself up to attacks from many various concerns because they are a high control group that governs many aspects of JW life.

  There are many good and sincere JWs: No one I know here or on other forums believes that ALL JWs are bad, or creepy pedophiles, or other kinds of social deviants. Most JWs are simply blind and ignorant of what goes on within the proverbial 'Back Rooms' with their leaders. Most of this has not concerned this forum, save the organizational polkicies that have resulted in shielding JW Pedophiles, over and over and over, again and again and again.

  What is about to take place with the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses is a serious step to expose the issue, and either lead to reform within the religion to act to protect its most vulnerable - its children - or if not, to lead to the financial ruin of its publishing empire.
• 

  coffee_black

  Exactly! 100% on target, Amazing!

  cb
• 

  accuracy

  What is about to take place with the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses is a serious step to expose the issue, and either lead to reform within the religion to act to protect its most vulnerable - its children - or if not, to lead to the financial ruin of its publishing empire.

  And which one is it that you really, really want?

  To my way of thinking, while it is true that the pedophile issue must be resolved to the benefit of the victims, it appears that some merely see this as another thing to latch onto in an attempt to 'financially ruin' the WTS. Is it hatred of the WTS, or love of the children that motivates them? If merely or primarily the former, where is the moral high ground?
• 

  ThiChi

  "White folks are biggots."

  Haaaaa, the pot calling the kettle black! (No pun intended)
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  metatron

  I won't speak for others but desiring the Watchtower's
  financial ruin is the moral high ground.

  How much evidence is needed to prove that THEY CAN'T be trusted
  to do the right thing? What will it take?

  Responding to this recent scandal with careless and unimaginative
  lies , as they have, speaks volumes. They don't care - and
  will do anything to survive and control others.

  When pushed against the wall, what do they do?
  Lie and coverup! If you like the concept of repentance,
  take note that it doesn't apply to their behavior.

  metatron
• 

  SYN

  Accuracy: The previous and the former would both please me, but best of all would be the previous AND the former.

  How's that for a cryptic post?

  "If men were like their personal ads, they wouldn't need personal ads."
• 

  dungbeetle

  I don't see what the desire to want Watchter to 'come down' has to do with anyone's work with Abused and MURDERED children.

  The only one drawing attention and making any connection between the two is Watchtower apologists.

  I don't know who's side you are on, you pr-Watchtoerites, but I think we need to hire you becasue you bring out all our points FOR us!!!!

  As Mr. Dungbeetle says about you Watchter apologists: "Kepp those cards and letters coming"..hahaha

  UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)

  
• 

  ThatSucks

  accuracy, if an organization's policies protects those who harms children, and your goal is to protect those children, than the motive is irrelavant. If the organization changes policies, than the goal of 'helping the children' is acheived. If the organization is ruined, leaving it's polices null and void, than the goal of 'helping the children' is achieved.

  Now, if your goal is to protect the organization, I can perfectly understand your attempt to cloud issues with personal motives. It would probably be better for everyone involved if the wt/ccjw's would just change their policy. That way, your precious organization is left intact, and the children are safer. Unfortunately, things haven't gone that route so far. So, if the organization won't change it's policies, it's time to move against the organization. Protecting children is the 'moral high ground', as far as I am concerned.
• 

  hawkaw

  So people are concerned that maybe the little old WTs might get financially ruined because of this mess. I remember there was this native Canadian, who said on 60 minutes something like what I am about too about the financial problems and these "holy" churches ...

  My comment is this ...

  Well the WTS, God's Chosen Organization, should have thought about all the pain and suffering of this raping and sodomizing of little children before going down the path of turning the other cheek!

  hawk
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Accuracy: You ask:

  "And which one is it that you really, really want?" ... "To my way of thinking, while it is true that the pedophile issue must be resolved to the benefit of the victims, it appears that some merely see this as another thing to latch onto in an attempt to 'financially ruin' the WTS. Is it hatred of the WTS, or love of the children that motivates them? If merely or primarily the former, where is the moral high ground?"

  REFORM, is the ideal. If the Watchtower religion would drop its pharisaical legalism, stop the shunning of former members, get out of practicing medicine with its prohibition of Blood, and end its vast Code of Regulations against silly stuff like Birthdays, etc. then this wuld be good.

  If it would at least act to protect children in a good, reasonable, and lawful manner, and place its JW pedophiles in second place to its marketing image and rigid weird policies, then this would be a good step, and bring some satisfaction to many former members.

  Hatred of the Religion?: There are some people who hate the Watchtower and the JWs in unhealthy ways. I have had a few email and calls from people who are crazy, and had to terminate my contact with them because they are far too extreme in their bitterness and hatred.

  I find most here on this forum and others to be fairly reasponable, and preform reform over the financial demise of the religion. My mentioning its financial ruin is a projected possibility if it refuses to change ... an objective obeservation of potential results, and not an emotional angst to see them ruined.

  Perceptions of Bill Bowen: I personally know Bill. He is not out to destroy anything. He, nor I or others are using the JW pedophile issue as leverage for any larger agenda of so-called hatred. Rather, the JW pedophile issue is a stand-alone matter deserving significant attention - regardless of other issues associated with the false and unchristian teachings of the Watchtower religion.

  Similarly, the Catholic Church is getting deserved exposure to force it to change its policies of merely shifting pedophile Priests around from parish to parish - in an obvious attempt to shove the problem under the rug. I, nor others necessarily want to see the Roam Catholic Church put out of business, regardless of whether we agree with the religion.

  Potential for much Good: The Jehovah's Witnesses and their publishing religious heirarchy have so much energy and potential to do good, if they only would. Just publishing and distributing the Bible freely as do the Gideons would be one way. Another would be to do what many kind religions do, and have charity programs to feed, cloth, and help the poor, infirm, and undereducated to get a fresh start on a meaningful and productive life.

  Instead, the JWs spend countless hours distributing literature that largely goes unread ... killing tens of thousands of tree each year using vast amounts of paper for a message that does not ring true. Be that as it may, it is their right to do so ... what is not their right is to have policies that lead to the continued harm of children.

  What about the many debates regarding JW beliefs?: This is fair game. It is not something foreign to the Watchtower leaders ... for they have spent nearly 90 years since the time Joseph Rutherford took over the helm, preaching nothing but the negatives of other religions ... the JW message has been a constant barrage of HATRED for other people and their beliefs. Soooo ... a little turn-about is fair play ... the problem is that the JWs seem able to dish it out, but they cannot take it when it comes back to them, even diluted from the strength they spew out.

  Haterd? NO! - Social Responsibility? YES!