Well, you guys have taken this way deeper than I can comprehend, so thanks, I've got some interesting reading to get my head around . In answer to your last question ruby, simply, yes it is unity, but it's enforced unity from birth (or baptism) PORTRAYED as protective. E. G. Don't read other materials, don't talk to apostates, for YOUR OWN GOOD, they're wily and will lie to you... If you DO go outside our walls we'll have to lock you out for the good of the community. I admit, there have to be rules for any club you belong to, and a kicking out process for those that transgress, but we take it WAYYY too far. Imagine belonging to a Ford motor enthusiasts club then being thrown out for bad behaviour. Or for saying that you think Fords are actually not as good as General Motors. And then seeing former members in the mall who will not catch your eye or say hello. True, some may do that naturally, out of fierce loyalty to Ford, but the majority would recognise an old companion, exchange pleasantries, maybe even joke around about Ford/GM! But I digress. Our unity is simply by brainwashing, brain training, repeating repeating the same old stuff until it becomes new stuff then repeating repeating that stuff until it's entrenched. And warning that there'll be repercussions for speculative independent thinking. That's not unity that I want to be part of. If someone else has a different idea to me, that's their prerogative, as long as it doesn't harm anyone or impinge on their liberty, fine. If only! I keep coming back to Barry's quote at the top of this thread. Cheers Barry!
UNITY vs CONFORMITY - discuss.
by disposable hero of hypocrisy 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cha ching
"Give me liberty, or give me death"
"no lie is of the truth" 1 john 2: 20
"Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses respect for himself and others, and having no respect, he ceases to love." Foyoder Dostoyevsky
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snare&racket
Unity and conformity are behaviours and traits seen in us, in animals. They sre hijacked by religions and alike. We no longer live in the jungle, so for me I am happy to not be a sheepin the middle of the herd anymore. There is lazy reward in following the herd, no thinking, no effort, no responsibility, just as conforming and being united in beliefs in a religion.
Having experienced both, I can say that going it alone is scary, but one hundred times more rewarding. Exactly as TJ quoted "Give me liberty or give me death!" Once you taste freedom, for me after leaving WT, you could never give it up again without a loss to your soul.
I still conform and I am somewhat united in social constructs such as respected social behaviours and legal law. But I do those things primarily because they are evolutionarily beneficial.
I think these two things, unity and conformity, are in our DNA, they are natural in such a social species as ours. For me, it is just another thing religions and other groups have hijacked, not all for bad, not all for good such as drug gangs, sports teams, soldiers etc etc.
snare
p.s. I know this is 100% my opinion, no need for an in depth thread on it or to pretend there are right answers on any of this stuff yet. Apart from our obvious evolutionary traits for unity and conformity, the rest in conjecture. Also yes, brush strokes is sn accurate depictionof how I write here, i bomb in and out in spare time. it's just a light chat, hey! X
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barry
Gday disposable hero,
The quote on page 1 is from Augustine of Hippo from the 4th century.
Augustine is a saint in the Roman Catholic faith and the Anglicans. Augustine also wrote about Orininal sin, the doctrine of grace and Predestination
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Ruby456
sn&r I agree that unity and conformity are in our DNA but I think what I'm trying to focus on (and this has just crystallised) is that we also have a strong sense of agency or at least a strong sense of desiring to be agents of our lives. It is so paradoxical that the people who became jehovahs witnesses were imo endeavouring to express this quality only to become entangled in an organisation that allows no or very little agency and then they are caught so tight that there seems to be no way out.
What I mean by agency is the desire and ability to bring value and dignity into one's life and into the life of others both individually and through solidarity so that even the least member can feel a sense of purpose and value in being agents in their own lives. These were the noble aims that were spelled out to us when we were first contacted and no wonder that so many responded.
What I would say to those who find themselves in such a predicament is to learn to say NO (you will need this ability even when you leave jehovahs witnesses). Look to those who resisted the Nazis by hiding jews. Develop/access the character that first made you join and now use it to make a stand against your leaders - prardoxically you already know how to make a stand all you now need is to access your thinking ability and conscience when you are called on (by the GB) to act against lowly ones who are being bullied theatened and coerced into such unity and conformity that renders you and them incapable of following your narrow path.
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twice shy
There is the illusion of a united doctrine. Bottom line is at the Kingdom Hall it's their way or the highway. An elder once said "we are picky about who we let in." While he was speaking to the whole congregation. Only after you conform to their way are you united with them. Go against the grain and they won't even call on you to comment.
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stuckinarut2
Unity does not mean Uniformity
there should be room for individuality in everything.....