Overseer's wife accompanied my Elderette, to answer my question, "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?"

by Faithful Witness 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • exwhyzee
    exwhyzee

    "If you want to know the truth about someone, what do you do? If I want to know more about you and how you run your house or take care of your kids, do I ask you personally, or do I go run around and see what your neighbors say about you?"

    Good job F.W. you handled that well.

    What a dumb line of reasoning she used. Would she buy a used car based soley on what the used car dealer told her or would she ask other people what kind of experience they had with that dealership?

    For most people, red flags would be flying high if a car dealership (or religious organization) told them not to check into their background from outside sources or listen to anything negative former customers had to say. They'd likely wonder what they were trying to hide.

    Most JW's spend more time checking out the products they buy than they do investigating their own religion. They actually think it would be tantamount to apostasy to fact check Watchtower Society from outside sources.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    1. She claimed that nobody was making any profit off this... (!!!) She went on to say how nobody gets a salary, nobody:
    2. from the elders, overseers, right on up to the governing body. "Nobody gets paid!"

    A C/O`s Wife?!..LOL!!..

    Ask her if JW`s ever give her and her husband,cash and/or gifts..

    Regardless of how they recieve it..

    JW`s are footing the bill for that C/O and his wife to live..

    ....................................................................................... photo mutley-ani1.gif...OUTLAW

  • Sittingstraight1212
    Sittingstraight1212

    A neighbor of mine works for the government. He doesn't talk much about what he does. Once a year a gov official comes to close neighbors to ask them questions about what type of person he is. They ask questions I'm sure to see how much we know and mos of all what type of person and what's his personality. Does he drink, does he do drugs.. Etc.

    they dont ask people within he gov. About who he is... Hey ask outsiders to get a clearer prospective on who he is.

    WE MuST DO RESEARCH OUTSIDE OF THE ORG INFO.. The witnesses think that's enough.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    She came back with, "If you want to know the truth about someone, what do you do? If I want to know more about you and how you run your house or take care of your kids, do I ask you personally, or do I go run around and see what your neighbors say about you?"

    If a stranger wants to look after your small children, who do you ask to find out the truth about him? By 'Watch Tower Logic', you should ask him about his 'reputation'. Pay no attention to those pesky 'victims' or 'news reports' about him being pedophile.

    Sigh.

  • ProfCNJ
    ProfCNJ

    Hi Island Man & exwhyzee, good morning. I have saved your comments here.

    What an eye-opener. Big Thanks! :)

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Bible Student: I learned that I should not have meaningful conversations with people, or make any decisions when my blood sugar is out of whack. This is a new issue for me, and after this episode of utter confusion, I am even more clear that I need to learn how to handle it. I was sweating and shaking, but didn't want to be rude.

    I am relieved that my elderette seems to be willing to stick with a plan, and to call first for our next meeting. I don't think I scared her off, and that is a first. :) She has an agenda, and approval of my former BS teacher. I wonder how long it will be before she wants to bring her husband and talk to mine.

    leaving_quietly: Wow, great catch. Why didn't I see that before?

    "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed ...?" PAST TENSE. He did not say "whom his master WILL APPOINT". Nor did he indicate when this appointment would occur. Logic would indicate that the master would appoint the slave BEFORE he leaves, not just before his arrival, or even during his "presence".

    She referenced Daniel 12:4 as a corresponding verse: “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. + Many will rove about, * and the true knowledge will become abundant.” +

    Lost generation: " You seem to have more JW encounters than I could ever tolerate! They must be viewing you as that fish that got away!" I have noticed that I DO have lots of JW encounters.

    Island Man: Thanks for the references. I will definitely come back to those topics. I think she is going to get stuck on proving the appointment of the faithful and discreet slave for awhile first.

    OUTLAW:

    A C/O`s Wife?!..LOL!!..

    Ask her if JW`s ever give her and her husband,cash and/or gifts..

    Regardless of how they recieve it..

    JW`s are footing the bill for that C/O and his wife to live..

    If I hadn't been in such a fog, I might have had a better response to her absurd statement about WTS being non-profit. She also went on a mini-rant about pedofiles and how they are disfellowshipped and dealt with appropriately. She claimed that parents have "Practice sessions" with their kids, to help them avoid being abused, and know what to do if a situation arises. I knew I was not in a state of mind for that battle, but it was so obvious (put the responsibility on the kids now). Ugh... it was depressing to see this woman, a professed "ex-atheist" tell me how she had been "the least likely to EVER join a religious organization..." going on a rant about how her "research" had convinced her that this was the one true religion.

    -------

    My elderette has an illustration that she appears to be using on me. I'm not sure if she came up with this herself, or if it's from the script. She started by telling me about a jigsaw puzzle that she had put together at home. "The pieces around the edge are easy to put together." Then, there are the piece in the middle... and sometimes you come across a piece that you just can't find. And then there is that piece that you *thought* was in the right place, but you realize it isn't quite right when you look at it closer. You can tell it just is not fitting.

    Has anyone used this before? I happen to love analogies, so I can use this when I am asking her questions.

    They made it clear that their visit was meant to address the question of the slave. They used Matthew 24:45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave..." and then cross-referenced to Daniel 12:4 " “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant."

    In my mental fog, I could not see the correlation between these two verses. Now that my mind is clear, I still can't see how this verse from Daniel applies to the slave being appointed 1900 years after Christ was born. I was reading from the KJV as a comparison, and all I could see was that it said "many will go to and fro..." and I thought it was odd that they would choose that verse.

    -----------

    In another corner of my world of JW's, I wonder if the news of my renewed BS interest will soften my sister's resolve to shun me.

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    " They used Matthew 24:45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave...""

    Use the account of the faithful slave found in Luke. It throws their interpretation off. Luke's account shows that the illustration of the faithful steward was prompted by Peter asking Jesus if he was talking to the whole crowd or just the diciples. Then Jesus, in response, asks him who really is the faithful slave. Luke also more clearly mentions other slaves not mentioned in the Matthew account. Luke's account makes it more evident that it's really a parable rather than a literal prophecy. Here is a good video by Londo that might prove helpful to you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeURVCRK7GQ

    "As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end . Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant."

    Let's take that scripture again, this time highlighting different terms:

    "As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end . Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant."

    JWs account for 0.1% of the world's population. They can hardly be described as "many" and therefore it can hardly be said that the "true knowledge" they possess is abudant - not to mention the fact that today's JW truth is tomorrows old light. And then again, it is only the 8 members of the governing body that are authorized to "rove about" and come up with "true" interpretations of scripture which they then spoon feed to other JWs. That scripture in Daniel is clearly not describing 8 men roving about in scripture and telling others what they find. It is describing many people roving about gaining true understanding.

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    Londo's channel has a lot of good videos that would prove helpful to you:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnXY0-N67N4a5a8eKbar-iw/videos?flow=grid&view=0

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi Faithful Witness, JWs (as do other dangerous cult members) use "unhealthy influence" tactics to deflect a conversation. Examples of deflection are asking questions back to make it appear that you have personal issues, switching subjects (especially if they feel that they are unable to prove their position) and quoting unrelated verses to confuse potential recruits. Steve Hassan's video How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01) may help you to better understand what I'm talking about.

    Too overcome deflection tactics ask them simple questions in an inquisitive tone of voice, such as "Why did you change subjects?", "How are those verses related?" or "How is _____ related to _______?", "Do you know that by switching subjects so frequently you are bringing reproach on the WTBTS, because householders will start to think you belong to a dangerous cult? (show them Steve Hassan's video to prove your point)"

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    Speaking about that scripture in Daniel, it is noteworthy that Daniel 12:4 makes that statement with reference to understanding the time prophecies mentioned by the angel. The publication 'Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy' gives some very embarrassing self-serving interpretations to some of these prophecies, applying them to JW conventions and things of the sort. But that's not even the worst of it. The dates the publication gives for the fulfilments of these prophecies DO NOT MATCH back with the number of days mentioned in the prophecies. Their intepretation of those prophecies are clearly false. So it is a fact that Daniel 12:4 definitely IS NOT having fulfillment on them. Londo did a great video on that:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu7030iiaBU

    So if they bring up Daniel 12:4 you can ask them if the text isn't speaking about the prophecies the angel gave Daniel which he didn't understand. They would have to say yes because that's plainly the case. Then you ask them do JWs now have an accurate understanding of the fulfillment of these texts. That would give you the opening to point out the mathematical impossibilities of their interpretations given the number of days mentioned in those time prophecies.

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