Cosmos--any creationists watching? And what does EVEryONE think of it?

by Jon Preston 33 Replies latest jw friends

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  snare&racket

  Evolution, abiogenesis, the big bang.... These are not things that are in any way associated with personal opinion or belief.

  Reality IS reality !!!

  I can't say it strongly enough, the truth, the reality.... does not care about your opinion, my opinion, your pastor's opinion & we should teach our kids the truth and reality of what we know and have evidence for. If that conflicts with 2000 year old jewish scrolls.... That is not our problem, it is between the believer and their scrolls. If they choose to deny reality for the scrolls.... fine, but step aside as humanity WILL progress on without them...
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  DJS

  Will be,

  I think your point misses the point, I'm an atheist, and I do not give one moment's thought to what creationists and theists believe. Ever. I used to be one, so I already know what they believe and respect it. But once there is a structured debate about the topic, such as on this forum, then the atheists are going to get annoyed and irritated at the theists/creationists when ALL they can bring to the discussion is their feelings, thoughts and belieifs. I have pontificated this point numerous times in the 11 months I've been on this forum. Most if not all of the atheists are college educated, some have advanced degrees, such as Snare and yours truly. We have learned how to learn, incluidng the scientific method, developing a rational, objective point of view and, most important, to support our statements or assertions with data and facts obtained through the scientific method.

  If theists and creationists want to discuss 2000 or 3000 year old writings, as Snare indicates, what they "believe" or "feel" or have been taught or those myths and legends which have significant meaning to them, then they need to do so in the 95 percent of the topics submitted on this site for discussion. Think, man (or woman). Think rationally. Look at the past 100 topics on this site. Look at it historically. Ninety five percent of them are theist/JW stuff to which no atheist should give any interest (I don't). I post on average once per day. There is a reason for that WillBe.

  Now if the theists and creationists would show the same restraint and respect for non-theists subjects and bring ONLY facts to them, you wouldn't piss us off so much. The problem is not in the atheists who are human and get tired of saying the same thing over and over and especially of hearing the same tired non-scientific, non-factual mantras over and over. Y'all gots a place for that. Don't bring it to these discussions.

  Clarify your argument and you will understand. Snare gets annoyed just as Cofty and I and others. We are human, not arrogant (OK, I may be a bit arrogant).
• 

  will-be-apostate

  DJS and the others: Can you please tell me which part of my post made you think that I don't accept evolutionism as a fact?

  What I was trying to say is that I noticed a tendency of not respecting others' beleifs I'm an engineering student, I'm familiar with the methods and logic. After reading some posts around here I got this impression that there is no room for those who have other views.
• 

  DJS

  WilBe,

  The point about atheists being just as arrogant and ignorant and letting theists believe what they want is what I was responded to. I think I addressed that at a high level. I agree with you completely about letting theists believe what they wish and respecting it, but bringing their theist mantras to a scenitific discussion is disrespectful and deserving of flames. They have a place for that, and it isn't in scentific discussions. There are some good discussions relative to AB and even ID, but as Snare states, lots of real science has gone into addressing those.

  And congrats to being an engineering student!! Which area of study? Electrical, mechanical, nuclear, civil? Trains ? (Just kidding). I work with a lot of engineers, some of whom have advanced degrees in nuclear and blast engineering. very smart people.
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  will-be-apostate

  I agree with you, and regarding my college education: thank you. I'm studying petroleum engineering. Please don't judge, it was the best option for me in my country.
• 

  mynameislame

  I hope somebody understands my point.

  will be apostate I do.

  I find that science is often portrayed as if it is a fact or a proven theory even when there is no possible way they could know for a certainty. Certainly there are many scientists who aren’t like that but it bugs me when someone says they know for a fact what happened billions of years ago billions of miles away.

  And I bet your 50% prediction is way too optimistic.Of course I won't likely be here to pay up....

  Just an fyi that I didn't watch the show yet.
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  will-be-apostate

  Yes, I think some level of ambiguity enters into the discussion when it's about things we can only study remotely, but that's only when it comes to what was before the Big Bang, string theory, all those Morgan Freeman stuff :D However in most bracnhes of science that doesn't apply. I admit that I need to read more about how they get those figures, I always wondered about that. I'm gonna study geology in this semester; I finally get to understand how they calculate the age of the Earth and will be able to show jws that scientists don't just pull out those figures from their pocket.
• 

  DJS

  WilBe,

  Excellent for you!! And the longer you continue your education the more you will appreciate the scientific method. I'm so programmed by it that I won't form opinions until I have done some research. Plus, I've been an adjunct prof at 2 colleges, and I see 'red' when someone makes a definitive or authoritative statement, that is nothing more than an unsupported opinion that they should have kept to themselves, totally unsupported by actual facts and empirical data. Keep up the good work!!!
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  snare&racket

  Why not go to a museum, or get a textbook, go hold, touch, see , read what we mean by 'evidence'. Yes scientists can look atthe evidence and make wrong assumptions about it. I agree. But when you see an exhibit of ancient prehistoric, long lost species... or dinosaurs from 60 million years ago, or humans from 150,000 years ago, their tools, jewelry, trinkets.... Neanderthal remains with burial ritual items.... Even farming equipment older than 6,000 years old puts nails into the coffin for the bible.

  The world is full of such 'facts' even if you assume every scientific argument as wrong.
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  SecretHeart11

  Will be and my name, I understand what you mean. So many things that were scientific "facts" even 100 years ago are now known to be untrue. It sort of feels like a similar attitude to people who believe we are living in the most important times Biblically (kind of conceited). I'm sure every generation feels "we have the most important discoveries of all time!", which might be true until 100 years from now when they discover a bunch of information that may disprove what we know now. All these theories sound completely reasonable, but who knows what will come to light in 50, 100, 200 years that could disprove so much of what we "know" now.