GB And Change: Lessons From Soviet History

by metatron 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  prologos

  but Putin was a KGB active in Leipzig, the most demonstrated city in East Germany (except Berlin in 53). so:

  will the KGB make a comeback and also the "teocratic' anti-type?
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  kneehighmiah

  @konceptual

  i disagree that there is not open dissension. Have you read the posts on the International Convention problems? People are openly refusing to obey, prompting strongly worded letters from the branch. The letters basically say how dare you not trust us and follow our direction.

  Also this weekend, saturday, there was a special meeting for the secretary and COBEs from the region regarding the refusal of brothers to attend the convention. I've never heard of these levels of dissension Before. They seem unprecedented. Remember when older friends tell you how pumped up everyone would get to have such an awesome privilege? Not anymore.
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  smiddy

  A very interesting analogy , you can only fool all of the people some of the time with lies and spin , true , you can fool some of the people all of the time , which leads me to beleive that eventually the religion of jehovahs witnesses will become a fraction of the size it is now.

  smiddy
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  metatron

  Think about this - all of the remarkable, unexpected changes the Organization has undergone in the past couple decades were triggered without open rebellion. They all were results of passive-aggressive resistance by publishers .

  Publishers who closed their wallets - who secretly watch porn -who skip boring meetings - who waste magazines they often don't even read - and more.

  This is the sort of behavior that dragged down the Soviets primarily. Alcoholic workers who goofed off and faked their labor. Party officials who kissed butt and accomplished nothing amidst infighting. Productivity that was abysmal.

  Riots? Open rebellion? Nice but who needs that if you can just leave and fade away? Or sit in your KH chair and pretend? Or claim depression or a litany of chronic illnesses that allow you to stay home?

  The next time you drive thru any town, take note of the churches. Everyone of them used to be zealous/fanatical organizations, not the mushy 'only on Sunday' denominations you see today. They lost altitude when the children of their membership got tired and just wanted to be left alone. No riots needed, just younger people saying 'screw this'.

  It's gonna happen. It's just a question of when.

  metatron
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  konceptual99

  @kneehighmiah - good points. I was not aware that such letters had been read and that the meeting you describe had happened. It's true that the efforts required to attend the international conventions do impose further burdens on people so it will be interesting to see if this year's gripes continue into the following years.

  @metatron - I think the scenario you portray is far more realistic. It's clear that there can be a collective effect of these individual actions. I also agree that each generation of young ones will have different attitudes. I don't doubt that change will be forced if the feedback from the CO's is that many in the congregations struggling with x or y. I still think that the society do have the trump card of the fear of apostates.

  For example I only mentioned in jest the 100 year anniversary of Kingdom and was that the same as a 100 year birthday to a friend and was immediately met with a retort about apostate reasoning. This was from someone who is reasonably liberal (in JW terms) and non judgemental. You know how hard it is to be able to raise thought provoking questions in a group of people. I am sure you have been party to conversations about others who are drifting or are not seen as strong witnesses any more - the atmosphere gets pretty thick, pretty quick, with the judgemental and self righteous jibes about such ones.

  I think that this fear of apostates is strong amongst most witnesses and is the most powerful tool that the WTS has in keeping people in line. I can't see it's power being diminished in the short term.

  Having said that, and in line with the OP, history does show that totalitarian regimes do have a limited shelf life. It is clear that as less and less happens in line with Bible "prophecy" and the rules and regulations appear ever more unreasonable then more people will be inclined to simply not bother with those aspects of the "truth". It will be interesting to see if this is enough to bring about significant top down change (as per the Soviet parallel) or if the WTS will simply contract over time and shrink to nothingness.
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  Frazzled UBM

  metatron - the war in Afghanistan (and rebellion in Eastern Eurpoe) created a crisis as almost every family in the Soviet Union lost a family member and the military themselves were extremely disillusioned. As a result the leadership felt they had no choice but to offer major reform to avolid a bloody counter-revolution. It will probably take a similar shock to finally put the WBTS to the sword. Because the WBTS does to have citizens, it can afford to le tthe disaffected leave as long as they do not communicate with continuing members. Also it allows them to expand into new markets in the Developing World. While the WBTS is an authoritarian regime it is more like a corporation than a stagte which makes it more adaptable. I suspect the thing which will bring it down in the end is money and so it is the stagnation in the financial growth and resources of the corporation which gives the most cause for hope.