I really starting to see the problems with the bible and it being influenced by other cultures, religions and also the fact that many of the books or letter were written after the fact or so called prophecy. So I am wondering would it work better to try to wake my children to TTATT about the JW cult or work on destroying the bible and its credibility? Which do you think would work better???
Advice, TTATT or Bible
by Crazyguy 10 Replies latest jw experiences
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fastJehu
For me TTATT about the JW.
As a 3rd generation JW "kid" I was always told NEVER to lie, because satan is the father of the lie and jehovah hates the lie.Then I saw all the lies.
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wasblind
Maybe you could point out how JW's don't follow the Bible
that would indeed be TTATT
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Dismissing servant
I would propose the other way. For a true JW it harder to accept TTATT than criticism of the bible. To be critical of the organisation is considered very apostateand activates a lot of alarm bells.
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AudeSapere
Personally, I would stick with the un-christianness of the WTS. And the inconsistencies that lead to The Truth About the Truth.
Full-frontal confrontation to shake someone's faith just puts them on the defensive. JWs go into cult-mode. Other christians go into pious mode and highlight all the good they do/have done.
Until someone personally feels the effects of the WTS, they will find a way to explain away the apparent discrepancies.
I consider myself agnostic and do not put much creadance in the Bible anymore. However, I believe there is some literary significance to it. And for some people it is their rock. It feels unfair to attack that rock at this stage. Better to go with highlighting the unchristian-ness of the crazy men with their crazy religion and how they are wholly unqualified to dictate how 7+million people should live their lives.
Disfellowshipping - Jesus would not do it. His disciples would not do it.
Blood - Is the symbol of life more important than life itself? Why is it OK to accept fractions made from donated blood but not OK to donate blood to help someone else? Could the reason for the bible's admonishment to abstain be due to the fact that in bible times that the available blood was due to the fact that someone had been killed or injured and therefore the *donor's* life was being disrespected??? In modern times, blood is donated by healthy people whose lives are not threatened; the donated blood is an altruistic *gift* from a healthy person with respect for the life of the infirm person.
Mexico/Malawi - All the persecution of the black brothers in Malawi was read to us as teenagers in the mid-70's. Why did the WTS push the agenda that resulted in horrific persecution of these brothers and sisters but in Mexico, accomodations were made for those brothers to comply with the government and avoid similar persecution? Why couldn't the same consideration be made for the tortured Malawis?
United Nations NGO - It's old news, but, seriously?? The wild beast and the harlot? Who's kidding who?? A library card? Right. Sure. F*cking hypocrites.
587/607 - Which was it? If 587, as confirmed by secular history, then 1914 is a fluky, contrived coincidence and Rutherford and his cronies are frauds.
The three things that were most important to me in breaking free from my mental and emotional attachment to JW were: Mexico/Malawi; UN NGO; and 587/607. It's been about 20 years since I up and walked out of the Kingdom Hall in the middle of a public talk so I'm a little bit out of touch with teachings that people have been hearing in that time. I suspect that most cannot explain the significance of 607 and how it relates to the 'godlike authority' of the current governing body. And younger people and newbies probably don't feel the same connection to the Malawi brothers. And since the 90's the society has been oh! so much softer on the UN. That old Babylon Great book probably has not been studied for decades. So these 3 'deal breakers' may not work on the current rank-and-file.
The new elder instructional video dramatizing the JC where the young man was threatened with disfellowshipping for dating - and possibly impregnating - a worldly girl. Telling him to breakoff all contact immediately. It's unconscionable.
The organization is all about isolation and legalities with different standards for the upper eschelon than the lowly rank-and-file. Right is right and wrong is wrong regardless of your status.
There is no outlet to speak any dissenting thoughts or ideas in the org. Be the outlet for honest thoughts - especially if they are original and personal. Encourage the exchange of freespeech and be patient. By allowing the expression of thought, you children and friends will be planting their own seeds.
Also find fun, clean, non-religious activities to do with the kids (and other friends) on a regular basis. Help them find enjoyment in interacting with moral, worldly people. Give them continuous options of going to boring meetings or fun, life-affirming activities. If they really want the meetings, it might mean you need to let them enjoy that. Just be sure to take pics of yourself and others having fun outdoors at the same time.
Best of luck to you helping them to wake up.
-Aude.
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Island Man
I would say stick to TTATT and the BITE model. It would be easier for your children to accept TTATT than TTATB (The Truth About The Bible). TTATB is something you should leave until they get older and after they have seen the real truth about the JWs.
Sharing TTATB with them at this time could backfire on you, by causing them to see you as an evil person who is denying the fundamental truth that the bible is God's Word. If the children let any JW know that you're sharing TTATB with them the JW can use such an argument to discredit you as an evil person who is denying the Bible is true and scare the children into being afraid to listen to or accept what you're saying.
But it all depends on how deeply your children are ingrained with the idea that the Bible is God's Word. TTATT is easier because you can use the bible's own teachings and the JWs own appeal to truth and morality to expose them as hypocrites.
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ILoveTTATT
Definitely TTATT, then TTATB, but that's only later, if at all. I like AudeSapere's discussion...
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jwfacts
You need to work out first what is most important to them. How much faith do they have in the Watchtower, and how much in the Bible. What makes them think the Bible is inspired, and what makes them think the Governing Body are directed by God? What are some of their doubts? Then you will know what topics to research and discuss.
For instance, if they have questions about the flood, or evolution, you can then discuss how Genesis cannot be taken literally. If they have questions about the history of the Watchtower religion, or talk about there always being JW's, you can go down that path. Maybe they wonder why 100 years have passed since 1914 and nothing has happened, then it could be a doctrinal discussion about 607.
I personally started to doubt the topic of universal sovereignty, and also whether God answered prayers. Yet did not question the Governing Body. It took a range of information to finally get through.
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Dismissing servant
"I personally started to doubt the topic of universal sovereignty, and also whether God answered prayers. Yet did not question the Governing Body. It took a range of information to finally get throug"
An interesting observation. You had doubts about God, but not ov the GB. I think this is not unusual among JWs. Therefor I repeat that it's better to question tnh bible or God, than attacking the organisation. Questioning the GB is the most "apostate" thing one can do, and it will only provoke the cognitive dissonance.
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cultBgone
I have so often asked "would Jesus have done that?" Which, because it works and is inarguable, is another reason the GB is deleting Jesus from the WT and putting themselves in his place. Good luck with that.