by NeverKnew 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I was told that JWs baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. I asked if it was done exactly as stated in the Bible to be sure I was hearing the answer correctly. The response I got was "yes!"
Is there ANY WAY POSSIBLE that a person who has been with the organization for over 30 years cannot know that JWs are not baptized as presented at Matt 28:19?
It is very possible that someone would not realize the details of their baptism that is 30 years in the past.
I had not been baptized that long and I did not realize that they had snuck in the part about being baptized to the WT.
I don't want to insult them but what if I asked an elder with them nearby? An elder would know, correct?
Any witnesses that I have discussed this with, has no idea
what their vows were!
Since 1985 the vows include ..............
"into gods theocratic ORGANIZATION!" (from memory!)
Seems that jesus isn't highlited much at all!
*
clarity
"In accord with his spirit directed organization"...
Not that they are claiming to be prophets mind you!...hahahahahahah
An interesting discussion online regarding the veracity of Matthew 28:19:
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" is not used anywhere else in the Bible. Jesus used the phrase "in my name" on 17 occasions.Matthew 18:5, 20; 24:5; Mark 9:37, 39, 41; 13:6; 16:17; Luke 9:48; 21:8; John 14:13,14,26; 15:16; 16:23, 24, 26, etc.
The Scriptures nowhere state that the disciples everbaptized in the threefold name. They always baptized solely in the name of Jesus.
Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5, 22:16.
The Scriptures tell us that -
a) if we ask Jehovah for anything, it must be in the name of Jesus.
b) to get Holy Spirit, we must ask for it in Jesus' name.
c) to get forgiveness of sins, we must be baptized in the name of Jesus.
d) when we are finally judged, it will be by Jesus.
The two earliest MSS. extant (Sinaiticus and Vaticanus), written in the 4th century, both include the end of Matthew also contain the threefold name. "In all extant MSS, ...the text is found in the traditional form (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics)." Against the threefold name:
There is no evidence in the MSS discovered to date. But, it must be remembered that we have no manuscript that was written in the first, second, or third centuries. There is a gap of the three whole centuries between the writing of Matthew and the MSS that contain the threefold name. In these circumstances we must turn to the early quotations, styled the "Patristic Writings" and examine their evidence, to see how they quoted Matthew 28:19, and this we will proceed to do. we do have the writings of at least two men who did actually possess, or had access to MSS. much earlier than our earliest now in existence. Eusebius Pamphili, or Eusebius of Caesarea. He was born about 270 A.D. and died about 340 A.D. "Eusebius cites this text again and again in his works written between 300 and 336, eighteen citations of Matthew 28:19, and always in the following form: "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you."
Can you name the christian religions who follow the wording exactly as in Matthew 28:19.
Searcher:
Very interesting research. Thank you.
Take Care
Most interesting.
Marked.
Eden
Searcher, thanks for that. Can you cite your source?
Even so, JWs don't even baptize in Christ's name. They baptize "on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ." (w10 1/15 p. 3 par. 1)
There is no passage that even alludes to baptism being linked to Christ's sacrifice. People were baptized by John for repentence of their sins. That is the JW baptism. With Christ, however, people were baptized by holy spirit and into Christ. JWs say this is only reserved for the anointed.
"Therefore, those who become joint heirs with him, with heavenly hopes, have to be “baptized into Christ Jesus,” that is, into the Anointed Jesus who, at the time of his anointing, was also begotten to be a spiritual son of God. They thereby become united to him, their Head, and they become members of the congregation that is the body of Christ." - it-1 p. 252
Most JWs do not realize the difference between the way they are baptized now and being baptized into Christ. I certainly did not until I looked at all the verses that talked about baptism, then read various WT articles on the subject. Most think that the way they perform baptisms is perfectly legitimate, but have no clue they are being baptized in the baptism of John, and not of Christ. In addition, there is no such thing as a "personal dedication to Jehovah" in the scriptures followed by baptism. If you look up Dedication in the Insight book, you will not find a discussion of a personal dedication to God. I haven't done a lot of research on this subject, but from what I have done, many scriptures are used, but not a single one of them says "dedication" in the NWT.
Here's the rub: if one does indeed dedicate themselves to God, it will forever be used as something against that one by man. I've heard many times, 'even disfellowshipped ones are under obligation since being disfellowshipped does not invalidate their personal dedication to God.'
Depending on how that dedication is made, it could be going against what Christ said:
“Again you heard that it was said to those of ancient times: ‘You must not swear without performing, but you must pay your vows to Jehovah.’ However, I say to you: Do not swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Do not swear by your head, since you cannot turn one hair white or black. Just let your word ‘Yes’ mean yes, your ‘No,’ no, for what goes beyond these is from the wicked one." - Matt 5:33-37
I am not saying that one should not promise their life to God if they truly desire to do so. But, the idea of dedication, and that being symbolized by water baptism is not found in the scriptures. I have to do more research on this to see where this idea came from.
