Jesus' Death-Stake or Cross?

by Dutchie 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  Amazing

  When I was becoming a JW, one of the reasons given to me that Jesus died on a 'Stake' is that the 'Cross' is a sex symbol, and therefore, Jehovah would never permit his Son to die on such an instrument.

  After I left the JWs, I had an in-depth discussion with a Baptist pastor about the 'Cross' vs 'Stake' issue. He noted that the "Upright" stake or "pole" was also a sex symbol, and that any such argument made by the JWs was pointless.

  Further, he commented on some history I found fascinating. He said that under Roman custom, the 'Stakes' were already mounted before the criminal was executed. The criminal would carry the cross-beam to the place of execution. This is why Simon of Cyrene was asked to help Jesus when he fell carrying the beam on his way to Calvery.

  Then, when the criminal reached the place of execution, he was nailed to the cross beam, and hoisted by pulley (yes, Romans used pulleys) up onto the 'stake.' The beam was secured to the stake, and then the criminal's feet were nailed to the stake for extra security. He said that is why the Bible said that Jesus was 'hung upon a stake or tree.'

  Almost 100% of art history shows Jesus on a Cross. Some few drawings show men hung on stakes, and he Watchtower Society has taken these few drawings as evidence that Jesus did not die on a Cross.

  The Mormons also do not use a Cross as well as several others like the Worldwide Church of God. If you drive by any Mormon Church you will not see a cross. However, Mormonism is from the same idiotic thinking of the 1800s as ae the JWs ... the Book of Mormon is invented history, much like many of the Watchtower historical claims.
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  Yerusalyim

  THE VERY first thing a JW would have to do to even TRY to convince me of the arguement they use is to show me what greek word WAS used for a cross with cross beam if Starous can ONLY mean stake.

  THe Mormons actually believe Jesus was Killed on a Cross, they just think it is Idolatry to DISPLAY crosses. THis gets interesting when the Mormon Chaplains have to wear a cross on thier collar in the Army.

  
  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
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  Bang

  "that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ"

  Their symbol is apt as the wtbts has no breadth of love beyond the width of "it's own stake" - it is proper and fitting to the organisation.

  Bang
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  FrankRaven

  I’ve always wondered about the controversy regarding whether Jesus died on a cross or on a stake. What’s the difference anyway? His execution was simply the way the Romans put people to death. What should be important is the fact that his death atoned for our sins and not the method of his death. Yet, the controversy has been waging all these years, cross or stake. I say, who cares?
  True,it doesn't matter how Christ's death came about.But on the other hand it was Rome's punishment for crimes that were extreme,not the jews.A cross beam held together for a longer painful punishment to the death.The stake,WatchTower's fantasy mith,would have killed the criminal faster.

  "It is not a form of religious persecution to say and
  to show that another religion is false
  as being false, thus allowing persons to see the
  difference between false religion and true religion."
  (Watchtower 11/15/63, p 688)
  RevFrank
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  Double Edge

  To the best of my knowledge, the only group that makes a "fuss" about cross vs. stake is the WTBS

  At a lunch time 'religion' study with my JW friend, he was trying to make a BIG point about it being a stake. I kept telling him he was wrong, that I knew a little bit about the history of crucifiction (I saw SPARTICUS)...he kept going on and on about the stake... and I said, "Dude, WHATEVER... does it really matter, I mean tell me...what the hell does it matter - he suffered, he died." Funny, he had nothing to say.

  THe Mormons actually believe Jesus was Killed on a Cross, they just think it is Idolatry to DISPLAY crosses. THis gets interesting when the Mormon Chaplains have to wear a cross on thier collar in the Army.

  Once again, off-beat comments have sent me to my Morman friends to ask them about "Crosses"....:(doesn't anyone beside me know any Mormans?) I was told that their feelings toward the cross itself are neutral... Regarding the death and resurrection of Christ, they prefer to 'celebrate' the completion of the atonement with the resurrection and the good news it brings, rather than the cross, or the symbol of death. Their church buildings contain spires that point heavenward as a symbol of hope. (my friend said the last sentence was his opinion.) In an of it's self, crosses are not an issue (even though others would like to point to that and make something sinister out of it).

  Amazing: The other day, on another post, someone got on my case because I defended Mormans. I told them that I defend several of my friends, who happen to be morman, but are not defined by being morman. I defend them because I hate half-truths as much as lies when I know they are wrong. I really have to ask you, do you KNOW any Morman's personally, (please, more than one)? Do you have any as friends? Although I leave them to defend their beliefs, after reading this board, I would rather have one 'cool' morman friend than a dozen anal-retentive JW's who can't think or see beyond their clouded vision.