Help with understanding

by Doltologist 52 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    @ Cappytan, I have to disagree with your basis for believing in Jesus as a person. I don’t believed he ever lived because there is no concrete evidence for his existence but there is evidence for political propaganda in the Roman state to promote a fictional god-man saviour hero with a Jewish name. That he existed is the propagandistic assumption which has powered the Roman Church for nearly seventeen hundred years. A superb book to read which helps get a handle on the events of the first century is A Short History of Christianity by JM Robertson...old... but astonishingly good. (Lots of others have written books of the same title).

    Secondly Wikipedia is popular consensus information and not necessarily scholarly, i.e. peer reviewed. Wikipedia is not considered a scholarly source at universities.

    @Adjusted, although no handwriting of his remains, we have first hand, primary sources in the case of Socrates, the key elements which make history historical. We have no such record of Jesus. All we have is second hand stories about him written years after the purported events. Even more telling is that we have almost exactly the same stories about the life of the NT god-man attributed to other god-men two thousand years before Jesus was supposed to have existed... Crucially in the argument against a real Jesus is that the “Jesus” story did by no means originate with him. The gospels for example tell their own variants on the older set of myths about the saviour of mankind, close in accord but not quite the same. Myths have to have the right ingredients to replicate but the ‘accent’ often changes.

    Josephus’ mention of Jesus had long ago been dismissed by textual scholars in the past as a forged insert into his text... but Christians now, in their desperate need to find Jesus as a real person, have resurrected the matter again in an attempt to make Jesus real.

    There are very strong arguments against Josephus having known or heard of a wonder working god-man called Jesus. Josephus wrote for educated Romans, had Jesus existed his readership would have wanted to know about him. If there was such a man as the Biblical Jesus; then Josephus would have recorded reams of information not just a passing mention which would have only whetted the reader’s curiosity. Alas there is no secular documentation of Jesus; I would maintain that he is a fiction in just the same way that his town of Nazareth did not exist in Josephus’ day. Jesus was supposed to have lived in Galilee about half an hour’s walk from where Josephus lived. He was too astute a historian to miss out salient facts. The mention of Jesus simply ‘in passing’, is out of character for Josephus’ writings and for him to record he was “the Messiah” is neither the language of a serious historian nor that of a Jew. The handwritten text which does say this is surely a later Christian forgery.

    @Doltologist, thank you for telling us about your condition, I do not have it myself but sympathise. One of the joys of being human is our differences.

  • Doltologist
    Doltologist

    Half Banana

    No need to sympathise - but thanks anyway.

    Aspergers was a great asset in my working life (IT) but a disaster in my social life (None). It's a case of swings and roundabouts.

    Overall, I'd say I'd benefited and, you know what, although I would like to experience the highs that some people must feel when they have experienced something truly wonderful, I'd hate to suffer the tremendous lows that some of you people suffer when, for example, a loved one tells you that they don't love you any more. Nah, I'll take what I have. Ain't complainin'.

    Oh, and a great post btw.

  • Doltologist
    Doltologist
    To add to Half Banana's excellent post, I have to say that jesus supposedly preached to crowds of 5,000. In those days, that was a very big deal and far bigger than the crowd that saw Nazareth United thrash Bethlehem City 5 - 0 in the 5th. round replay of the 30 AD Galilee Cup match. He (jesus, not Half Banana) caused havoc in the temple when he turned over the money-changers tables. He went round Galilee performing miracles one after the other. He cured Lepers. He caused water to turn into wine (always a useful stunt if a student and if a Friday night). He caused the paralysed to walk again. The list was endless. Now, don't you think that all this deserved a mention in the local rag (Jewish/Roman)? But nope. Not one mention by any of the local reporters of the time. Either jesus had a D Notice slapped on him or we have to take all this with a very large pinch of salt. I'm taking the salt route
  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe
    The Tacitus reference was written in AD116

    Sorry I was rushing my post because I had to go to work. I just quickly looked at the beginning of that chapter In my copy of Tacitus to see when it was written and 62-65 AD are the dates it gives but they are the dates that chapter covers, not when it was written.

    The issue here is that they were not first-hand accounts. One was written 60 years after jesus' supposed death and the other a fully 83 years. So, what were the bases of these documents?
    Yes that's what I said they are not primary sources, or first hand accounts as you put it. Tacitus is a secondary source, a history, based on research I presume. Who knows where he got his information from. I am not promoting Jesus as the son of God, I am an atheist. I was just answering your question about any historical basis for Jesus following on from Adjusted Knowledge telling you about Josephus. Certainly, in my opinion, not enough information to base a lifetime's decision to devote yourself to any religion.


  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    Hi, Doltologist. I completely sympathize with you on the eye contact thing. I don't think one-on-one eye contact is difficult at all, but in my work as a teacher, teaching content while focusing on the eyes and behavior of a class full of students is very difficult for me. And, if you don't manage to keep your eyes on the students, they become disengaged and you can lose control of the class as far as classroom management is concerned.

    Also, when I'm concentrating on teaching, I forget to smile. Also bad for keeping the class focused.

    My biggest nemesis is the Job Interview. With a half dozen pair of eyes looking at me, I forget everything I've ever known about teaching. I'm sure I score abysmally which is likely why I still haven't found a permanent teaching job.

    I definitely have difficulties with eye contact and body language monitoring, too when dealing with groups of people. I feel you. I definitely like people, but I just can't take too many at a time.

  • Doltologist
    Doltologist

    Xanthippe

    I wasn't having a pop at you honest. In fact, when I wrote my post, I hadn't even seen yours. My sincere apologies if I have offended thee.

    My comment was just a general one to highlight the fact that the 'proof' for the existence of jesus is nowhere near as strong as people think. In fact, its a bit flimsy, even at best.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe
    My comment was just a general one to highlight the fact that the 'proof' for the existence of jesus is nowhere near as strong as people think. In fact, its a bit flimsy, even at best.

    Yes I agree very flimsy indeed.

  • Doltologist
    Doltologist

    GrreatTeacher - Hi.

    How bloody odd. I find one-on-many eye contact easy because I can just scan from person to person - just as long as I don't need to dwell on someone too long. One-on-one eye contact is impossible for me - unless I want to stare someone out - then it's simple because no one beats me at that stupid game.

    I used to try and remember to smile. In the end, I just gave up.

    I must admit, I don't like people but I do like chatting on line.

    I used to have a problem getting jobs until I figured out how to get the job I wanted.

    Firstly, I'd look for a job that no one else wanted - eg. a project that was in the mire.

    Secondly, I'd come across as arrogant sod and gave them the impression that I could do the job stood on my head and that they needed me more than I needed them.

    Thirdly, I never smiled or made eye contact because I didn't want them thinking that I wanted their job and that I was too good for it. Having Aspergers is a definite advantage here because you can relax and be yourself. AND, here's the kicker, they believe because you come across as one who genuinely doesn't give a flying fart whether they hire you or not.

    I got most of the jobs I applied for.

    I have no idea whether such jobs exist in teaching. If they do, it's probably where you belong and where you'd be happiest. You can only give my method a go and, let's face it, your method hasn't worked yet (no disrespect intended).

    OK, my method may not appeal and I'm not suggesting that you try it. But, it may lead to an idea that may pay off.

    Luck.

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    Yeah, Doltologist, there are jobs like that. They're called Tutoring and I do excel at them. However, they are usually part-time which means no benefits like health insurance or retirement plans. However, substitute teaching isn't really providing those benefits for me right now, either!

    I will keep your scanning idea in mind. It won't give me much info about the students, but it will let them know that I've got an eye on them. I've just got to remember to do it consistently. Thanks!

  • Doltologist
    Doltologist

    GT

    I hope things work out.

    Take care y'hear?

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