Who is the mediator for the R&F now?

by nonjwspouse 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  nonjwspouse

  Has this been changed? I thought this might need a new thread.

  The Memorials I have heard about multiple ones noted the prayer ending with something like "jesus our mediator".

  SAMS on another thread :

  “nonjwspouse”: “SAHS, so has it now been stated that Jesus is only the mediator for the FDS, not all the anointed as was previously?”

  That’s a good question. You know, I’m not completely sure on that. It’s all so rather confusing (especially with all the twists and turns of it all). I know for sure that Jesus is the only mediator for the FDS, which is now solely the GB (no surprise there!). But as for the total number of the 144,000 anointed ones (including the FDS/GB), I guess their only mediator would be Jesus as well. (We could sure use Blondie’s input here!)

  All I know is that us non-anointed common folk don’t get the Jesus mediator. (Maybe we aren’t Jewish enough or something. We’re certainly not important enough, in JW land anyhow.) But just who the regular non-anointed JWs’ mediator is supposed to be for those other sheep – either the 144,000 as a whole or just the FDS/GB – I’m really not sure at all. (Bloooondiiiiee, heeeeeelp! I’m confuuuuused.) I guess we’re really all just supposed to be a bunch of lost sheep – sheep without a proper mediator. (That’s if we were still in the JWs, of course.)

  It is a very important question to me. It has a lot to do with what my husband thinks he hears, and what is reality is JW/WT land.

  I have not seen anything in print so far that changes Jesus mediatorship to include the R&F anywhere. But I could have missed it. But if I did, wouldn't it have been big enough to see it splattered all over this site?

  I join in with SAMS....Bloooonnndieee, where are you?.
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  AnnOMaly

  The r&f (including 'other sheep' elders - I've heard some of them!) think Jesus is their mediator. They take 1 Tim. 2:5 at its word and forget (if they ever really knew) the Org. teaches that Jesus is not their mediator.

  *** w79 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
  
  ● Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?

  ... At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.

  *** w89 8/15 p. 30-1 Questions From Readers ***

  □ Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the “mediator” who “gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”?

  ... The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefiteven now from Jesus’ services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah. Christ said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) All who will gain life on earth must direct their prayers to Jehovah through Jesus. (John 14:13, 23, 24) Jesus also serves as a compassionate High Priest who is able to apply in their behalf the benefits of his sacrifice, allowing them to gain forgiveness and eventual salvation.—Acts 4:12; Hebrews 4:15.

  Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using “mediator” in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, it refers to Christ as legal Mediator (or, “attorney”) of the new covenant, this being the restricted way in which the Bible uses the term.

  *** w89 12/15 p. 30 Do You Remember? ***

  In what sense does Paul use the term “mediator” when referring to Jesus at 1 Timothy 2:5, 6?

  In this text, Paul uses the Greek word me·si′tes for “mediator,” which term has a legal significance, so he is not using this word in the broad sense common in many languages. Hence, Paul is not saying that Jesus is Mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, he is referring to Christ as legal Mediator of the new covenant, which laid the basis for Christ’s anointed followers to share with him in his heavenly Kingdom. (2 Corinthians 5:1, 5; Ephesians 1:13, 14; Hebrews 8:7-13)—8/15, pages 30, 31.
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  sd-7

  The 'faithful slave' is the mediator for the R&F now. They've gone so far as to say that once they get to heaven they'll help apply the value of the ransom sacrifice to mankind's sins over the course of a thousand years. So they describe the 'other sheep' as being 'beneficiaries of the new covenant' while not being part of it. The only way said 'sheep' can get the benefits would be to 'remain associated with Jesus' anointed brothers'. So...no benefits unless you obey the WTS.

  Now probably if you say this to any JW, they'll think you're crazy, but if it's said in print in a WT, they'll be on the phone with their friends saying, "Oh, that was such a nice Watchtower this week! Yeah! Mmm hmm." Knowing they don't remember half of it, but they've got to make conversation about it, right?

  --sd-7
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  Laika

  Hi nonjwspouse, as per our discussion the chairman at the memorial I went to offered the opening prayer 'through Jesus Christ our mediator. Amen' it was a mistake, and I wondered if anyone else in the audience apart from me noticed it.

  It's a good example of how JWs believe anything the Society tells them, over and above what the bible actually says.
• 

  ABibleStudent

  Hi nonjwspouse, I would guess that most JWs do not realize that according to the Watchtower's latest publications Jesus Christ is the mediator for annointed Christians and therefore would not be the mediator for most R&F, who are not annointed. Because of the WTBTS's flip flopping, this can be confusing for JWs and not-JWs.

  I do know that when two JWs confronted me while I was picking up Memorial invitations after they left them jammed in doors and under door mats in my posted non-soliciting townhome community, they did not realize that Jesus Christ was not their mediator according to the WTBTS. I even advised them to read the Watchtower more carefully to learn that the GB was their mediator and not Jesus Christ.

  Asking a JW who is their mediator with God, could cause them to do usually mental/emotional gymnastics.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
• 

  SAHS

  “AnnOMaly”: “Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using “mediator” in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, it refers to Christ as legal Mediator (or, “attorney”) of the new covenant, this being the restricted way in which the Bible uses the term.”

  Good catch, Ann! Thank you for your clarification. Isn’t it just like the GB of the WTS to almost gloat over how they force an interpretation of what they think the Bible is supposed to say, according to them.

  That actually reinforces what I already thought. It’s just that the current “understanding” (opinion) of the WTS on this is so audacious and licentious that it’s sometimes still hard to actually believe that this is what they really print.

  You can certainly see the evolution of their self-serving doctrines as they more and more point upward to the GB as being the pinnacle of the expression of Almighty God on earth. Being able to look at all of this from our aerial view perspective (i.e., out of that mangled forest), it’s easy to see the very human nature of that whole WT establishment – replete with all the self-centered character defects which go along with it.
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  designs

  How many Christian Denominations teach Jesus saves even those who refuse him versus those Denominations who say you must do XYZ to have Jesus as your Mediator.
• 

  designs

  (Provisional and Definite Salvation)
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  blondie

  But the WTS applies 1 tim 2:5 to mediating prayer between humans and God (an example of how they speak out of both sides of their mouth). Yet below the WTS links prayer to God by humans many times.

  *** w02 7/1 p. 8 Worship God “in Spirit” ***

  Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular “saints,” asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: “There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between “God’s Temple” and Idols in Greece? ***

  Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to “saints” in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: “You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’” (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.” And the apostle Paul stated: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

  *** w89 5/1 p. 21 par. 15 Worship the Creator, Not The Creation ***

  To claim that Mary was the “mother of God” elevates her to a position where humans would tend to worship her, and that is what has happened for centuries. Hundreds of millions of people in many lands have prayed to her or through her and have given worshipful devotion to images and icons of her. While theologians may try to excuse this by saying that such veneration of Mary is only an indirect way of worshiping God, that is not the way God views it. “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5; 1 John 2:1, 2) Jesus himself said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”—John 14:6.

  *** w89 8/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

  The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefit even now from Jesus’ services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah. Christ said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) All who will gain life on earth must direct their prayers to Jehovah through Jesus. (John 14:13, 23, 24) Jesus also serves as a compassionate High Priest who is able to apply in their behalf the benefits of his sacrifice, allowing them to gain forgiveness and eventual salvation.—Acts 4:12; Hebrews 4:15.

  Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using “mediator” in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, it refers to Christ as legal Mediator (or, “attorney”) of the new covenant, this being the restricted way in which the Bible uses the term.

  *** w80 6/1 p. 18 par. 11 Praying to Jehovah so as to Be Heard ***

  How can we gain access to the great “Hearer of prayer”? He has appointed that this be through Jesus Christ alone. There is only one Mediator between God and men, and one High Priest, Jesus Christ. (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 7:25, 26) Jesus himself put it very explicitly, saying: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) “Most truly I say to you, If you ask the Father for anything he will give it to you in my name. . . . Ask and you will receive, that your joy may be made full.”—John 16:23, 24.

  *** w74 7/1 p. 396 How the Use of Images Can Affect You ***

  What about praying to Jesus’ earthly mother Mary or to particular saints for them to “intercede” with God on one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: “There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Tim. 2:5, Je.

  *** w70 6/15 p. 359 Should We Continue to Be What We Are? ***

  In fact, people are given to understand that prayers offered by religious priests will make them right with God. So, the reasoning of some church members is, Why bother to make a change if atonement for sin can be had by paying regularly for prayers? That, however, is merely a tradition invented by men. The Bible teaches that there is but “one mediator between God and men, . . . Christ Jesus,” and so rules out the mediatorship of priests as being of any merit.—1 Tim. 2:5.

  and more
• 

  Darth Rutherford

  Their warped teaching on the mediator really was an eye opener for me. As I was fading I asked one of the elders to discuss it with me, but he never would. The Bible's teaching is actually pretty straight forward; but Watchtowers is frankly blasphemous.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/253572/1/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Whos-Your-Mediator#.U1GiR-29LCQ