I'm a non-Witness who is doing research on Jehovah's Witnesses (and has been for several years). I just got out of a meeting with an Elder and his wife. I'm still somewhat stupefied.
First, they seemed completely unable to grasp anything I was trying to say. When I told them I didn't believe in God (when they finally forced me to answer some questions, I was hoping they just answer mine) the woman took me to Proverbs 8 and started telling me that Jesus had created everything. I have no idea what that had to do with anything. She also, on several other occasions, started trying to explain the Lord's prayer and Jesus instructions to the apostles as though I had mentioned these; I hadn't. I felt like she was arguing against an invisible opponent.
Second, and worst of all, they lied to me directly. To my face, lied to me. They have been "in the truth" for 60+ years, they told me, yet the wife insisted that they have not been preaching that the kingdom was near for all that time, merely that the kingdom would be beneficial to man. I asked her explicitly if she had been saying that the end was near this entire time. She said she had not. I know this is a lie. I have seen quotes and scans of magazines from this time.
Meeting with an Elder and his wife
by Abe Ostate 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Abe Ostate
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blondie
Well, maybe she hasn't in direct contradiction of WTS doctrine and belief........maybe she is an apostate
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Bob_NC
A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep. (Their's, not yours.)
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Newly Enlightened
WOW! I lived thru that entire 1975 debacle. I love how they always deny that fiasco. [Rolling eyes]
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LV101
I, too, remember the 1975 end of the world crisis with JWs. Omigoodness - that was really something and I wasn't a JW then but had a family member who was studying at the time. That's all they talked about. What a marketing scheme to scare people to join the ark.
In this day in age I've heard witnesses try to tell me the society never said 1975 would be the end. Yeah, right. Brainwashed crazies. That cult should be ashamed for misleading/hurting people.
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neverendingjourney
They don't encounter people like you very often. I don't know if you were a return visit or if this was their first time there, but JWs are typically ill-prepared to speak to people who've done their research. I wouldn't expect them to return. They were probably caught off guard and resorted to reciting talking points they were comfortable with regardless of the topic.
It's good that they were forced to confront an inconsistency in their beliefs (the end-is-near stuff). It probably made them uncomfortable having to lie to you that way. It may not bear fruit immediately, but it was a series of these types of confrontations that led me to loose my zeal for field service. Years later I quit the religion altogether.
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Dismissing servant
The goal of active JWs is not to answer questions, it's just to preach. It's almost impossible to get strightforward honest answers from JWs if you have critical question.
They did not lie, they just applied some "theocratic warfare strategy". Hiding the real truth to an outsider is not considered lying among JWs.
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rip van winkle
Hi Abe!
Please tell how " they forced me to answer some questions"
What tactics did they use? Headlock? Arm twisting? Waterboarding??
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Abe Ostate
The wife looked very uncomfortable when I brought that up, the whole "end is near" for 63 years. I called her out on it too: I said I'd seen pictures from the '20s of posters that said "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." She looked uncomfortable, almost embarrassed. Her husband said, "Well if that's not true, [that the kingdom is near] where will I go?" The whole conversation was like that: they mention something, I respond, they rush the conversation on to something else.
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L3G
The problem is that you're trying to be reasonable and appeal to reason. Once one accepts the lone belief that trumps all other human thought, that is, that the GB of JWs are the sole mouthpiece of the ultimate God of the universe, no other sort of reasoning matters. In fact, all other reasoning that comes from any other viewpoint is not just erroneous, but inspired by Satan the devil. That, of course, includes atheism.
Although they will be viewing you as lost, the mere fact that they were able to speak with you will, in their eyes, give you a glimmer of hope. It doesn't really matter what they said to you. From their perspective, they will be looking to see if Jehovah is drawing you to "the truth" (in the spirit of John 6:44), whether he is opening your mind and heart to whatever "truths" they shared with you (whether on-topic in your eyes or not). That's their perspective. I hope that helps you grasp your, understandably, baffling experience.
As to their lying, they may truly feel that they were not. One possibility here is they now honestly believe that years ago they were not teaching that the end was around the corner, even though they indeed were teaching that. Self-deception can be strong.