A Text Message Exchange

by Emery 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • Emery
    Emery

    I have been in the fading process for over a year now. Nobody has really bothered my wife and me since we've stopped, which I am thankful for. Recently, I've had an old JW friend send me a few text messages relating to business. We were best friends as teenagers, played music together and I was even the best man at his wedding. He is very aware of my inactive status and there have been several conversations where he's tried talking to me about it. I've used the excuse that I stopped going because of some harmful gossip said about my family by the "friends" (which is partially true), however I used it as an opportunity to stop going altogether because of my disbelief. Unfortunately the fading process leaves a bad impression on a lot of JW friendships, especially if they feel you've dropped them over something they had no control over, which is completely understandable. So for me, I have been fighting the urge to tell my friend that I have nothing against him, that I still love him, but I know our friendship will never be the same because of my disbelief. This text message exchange was my attempt at telling him how I really feel while at the same time not going full apostate on him.

    I was very passive and avoided trying to "win" every argument. As the saying goes, "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still". Also, I stayed away from attacking the organization directly.

    The conversation starts off after he finished sharing with me the highlights of the special talk from this past Sunday.


    Friend: You are like my brother. You and my family are like the only thing I miss about living in (City, State). You should get out of there and start fresh… get away from bad memories and move on. I was telling my parents the same thing. Its nice living somewhere that no one knows all your past and business and stuff.

    Me: Had a team meeting to attend here at work. Sorry again for the delayed response. You’re like a brother to me too. The other day I was listening to our music and embarrassingly enough, I cried like a little baby. You’re one of the most impactful people I’ve had in my life. I learned so much from you. We had a conversation a few months ago and I held back much of what I wanted to say. However, I feel I need to clear the air about my situation and where you stand in my life.

    Friend: Gotcha. What’s on your mind?

    Me: To be fair to you and respect the theocratic arrangement. I will not go into detail because we are told to keep things that may stumble others to ourselves. Three years ago I began a journey to make the truth my own. During that journey, I wanted to find answers to the questions and theological issues I had problems understanding.

    Friend: Okay, I’m listening.

    Me: Many of my questions went unanswered. To the point where I couldn’t conscientiously continue going to the meetings. I’ve talked to elders and older ones wise in the faith about it and all they could do is refer me to a couple of Watchtowers (which I already read). I prayed to Jehovah profusely. Cried many times knowing that I will be losing friendships because of it, which is nobody’s fault. I was not bitter at anyone, I only told you that so that I could be left alone. I still go to meetings here and there and I haven’t given up [I said this to protect our fading process]. But I cannot conscientiously go preach one thing when I have reserved doubts about it all. That would make me a hypocrite and a liar. So I slowly backed away from everyone.

    Friend: So what belief of ours is it that you feel is a lie?

    Me: It’s not that I think it’s a lie. I just didn’t want to preach a belief system from door-to-door when I, myself, am not sure I fully understand it or believe it.

    Friend: Ok…so there isn’t any belief in particular that you think is wrong…it’s just that your faith is weak in the organization?

    Me: If revolves around the 1919 understanding.

    Friend: Ok what about 1919

    Me: I’d rather not get into it. It would be WAY too much to text.

    Friend: Are you referring to Jesus appointing the faithful and discreet slave?

    Me: Some of that. I am not saying that they are wrong, but it just doesn’t’ make sense to me once it’s all laid out. [I said this to avoid attacking the organization]

    Friend: Gotcha. The only thing I am going to say is this… and then I will leave you alone about it. You can delve into things that have been in the past and find information about it online that disputes, twists words and twists how things were determined and how they happened but ultimately there is one thing to remember. Faith is proved true by its works. There is no other organization on earth today that is doing what the witnesses do to the extent that we do it.

    Me: How do you know that? You were born and raised in ONE organization.

    Friend: Ok…I didn’t think you’d pull that card out.

    Me: Haha

    Friend: But to answer your question. I have looked and done research when I was 18 on other religions. No other religion keeps their places of worship clean from a moral standpoint. No other religion works solely off of voluntary donations. No other religion goes door-to-door like Jesus commanded us to do. No other religion is doing the grand preaching work that Jesus said would be done before the end would come, Matthew 24:14.

    Me: I would agree that yes, JWs are performing the commission work to preach. Now here are some facts that I was faced with when I had the same conclusions…

    Friend: I don’t need any other facts. The preaching work is the single most important sign and thing that sets us apart and is there to show you the organization is from Jehovah. That is the whole key to everything as far as being able to determine the true religion.

    Me: Well if that’s the case, Mormons can say they are the true religion too. I had 2 knock on our door some months back and they notified me that they have over 75k missionaries all over the world. They have over 15 million members and they follow the same commission work Jesus commanded. They also told me that they were the fastest growing Christian denomination in the world. They too have a disfellowshipping arrangement, use Jehovah’s name, and reject the Trinity. Heck, they believe they have an earthly channel to God too. Mormons even have modern day prophets. Now I am not saying their beliefs are all correct…

    Friend: So there are Mormons preaching over the whole entire earth?

    Me: Yup. I had a long 3 hour talk with them.

    Friend: They only preach for about 2 years though and not all of them preach. Only the ones trying to graduate if you will.

    Me: Well, why is their work more effective then?

    Friend: Who says their work is more effective?

    Me: Their numbers.

    Friend: We have the largest circulating magazine in the world and the 3rd for that matter. I don’t think it has anything to do with numbers man. If you wanna go that route… look at the Catholics.

    Me: But you just said that the preaching work is key towards determining the true religion. Those are just magazines. First century Christians used the Torah and word of mouth to preach...

    Friend: Again… I don’t think numbers have anything to do with it.

    Me: Yeah you can’t go by the numbers.

    Friend: But the fact that we have the largest circulated magazine and it’s supported completely by voluntary donations that’s incredible. I can’t tell you the last time I asked for a donation out in service, yet the work is still provided for.

    Me: Magazines don’t mean anything if their ultimate purpose is to bring people in.

    Friend: Well here are a couple of things…Mormons participate in politics, warfare and holidays. I remember talking to one out in service and he told me that.

    Me: Yes, that’s true.

    Friend: Also… as far as prophets… we don’t publicize any one Jehovah’s Witness as our prophet. The fact that people know about our early founders is one thing...

    Me: The governing body does refer to itself as the Jeremiah class.

    Friend: But we don’t go around saying HE is a prophet or anything. We just simply state that they were early bible students.

    Me: Okay.

    Friend: Well, the bible does state that there would be a slave class that would distribute food at the proper time. They are doing that exact work. So yes… they do claim to be that but the members themselves are not elevated.

    Me: Okay well let me ask you this question, because it’s one that has confused me.

    Friend: Okay cool. Let’s hear it.

    Me: Give me a min here to compose it ha. The faithful and discreet slave understanding is found in Matthew 24:45-47. Jesus speaks about of a slave and what happens to this slave upon his arrival if he finds him doing his will right? Now, as I’m sure you know, Mark, Matthew, and Luke are synoptic gospels, in that, they repeat many of the same stories, parables, and life of Jesus in many of the same sequences.

    Friend: Yes

    Me: Okay, so the anointed remnant is comprised of this faithful slave CLASS. When I arrived at the same parable in another gospel, Luke, I noticed that there were several slaves listed. Luke 12:47-48 and then again at Luke 19:12-27. However, if the organization is going to be consistent in applying a CLASS to one slave in Matthew 24:45-47, then we’d have to say there is a “ten-mina” class, a “five-mina” class, a “many strokes” class and a “few strokes” class because those scriptures are based on the same parable. So, how do I deal with this issue? I have looked it up and it’s really not all that talked about. Is this simply a parable teaching all Christians to be faithful or a prophetic modern day application to a group of men?

    Friend: Well as I’m sure you assumed… I am going to have to do some extensive research on this and read all of these scriptures. Emery, pray pray, pray, pray, read and pray some more.

    Me: Haha, trust me, I have prayed. This is something I am very passionate about.

    Friend: By the way, I am not going to repeat any of this conversation to anyone because I don’t think you are firmly convinced one way or another. I don’t want people knowing because you may decide to come back… then it would cause a mess. I love you man. I would of course recommend you come back to meetings but I know simply stating that won’t make it happen so here is my secondary recommendation. Set your wife and yourself away from any association, including worldly people, disfellowshipped, regular witnesses, Mormons, potential apostates, online articles, etc. ANY INFLUENCE whatsoever. Set both you and your wife aside with just the bible and study when you can. Read and study, pray fervently MULTIPLE times a day. Try to put any one OPINION from others you’re heard and learned out of your mind and just focus on God’s word and pray to him for help. If you TRULY do that, then you and your wife can maybe come to a decision that is truly your own.


    So to keep this already long post from getting any longer, I told him I would do all of that (but not really). I will keep you all posted on how he responds to this challenge, however. What has the organization said to explain this discrepancy away?

  • Pyramid God
    Pyramid God

    They ignore it. Barely any witnesses read the bible on their own without the org's literature to give them their opinions. Those that do leave.

    But you handled that conversation very well. When I went through the same conversations with my friends I didn't have nearly that much tact and it turned them against me very quickly. It's a shame because you can see glimmers of the real human being in his texts, the one that loves you, and then the cult persona totally swallows it up when you bring up doctrine. I saw the same in my friends. It's like they're different people when you start to challenge their beliefs.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Friend: I don’t need any other facts. The preaching work is the single most important sign and thing that sets us apart and is there to show you the organization is from Jehovah. That is the whole key to everything as far as being able to determine the true religion.

    Hook Line and Sinker

    I suggest you break it off at this point since your emails will count as evidence against you in a JC.

    Tell him if he himself ever has any serious concerns about the truth or new truth you'll keep the door open for a private discussion other wise you've got nothing for him.

    Set your wife and yourself away from any association, including worldly people, disfellowshipped, regular witnesses, Mormons, potential apostates, online articles, etc. ANY INFLUENCE whatsoever. Set both you and your wife aside with just the bible and study when you can. Read and study, pray fervently MULTIPLE times a day.

    I think that says it all....your old friend isn't there he has no grasp about the journey your on.

  • PaintedToeNail
    PaintedToeNail

    I like this conversation. Your friend didn't like you usi g the number of Mormons as proof of approval by God, yet he used number of magazine circulation...

  • Pyramid God
    Pyramid God

    I would second Giordano's opinion. As hard as it may sound you probably should move on from him. Find some "worldly" friends who don't judge you. It's what I did and I'm a lot happier.

    Even though your friend genuinely cares for you, his religion won't allow him to behave like he does. So cut them off.

  • HeyThere
    HeyThere

    one thing first, you did a great job in sharing with this close friend. now hs wont take your move personal...and he will do his own research.

    second....i am gonna use some of your points. thank you for sharing.

  • HeyThere
    HeyThere

    i have a witness friend who i became very good friends with years before i even consideered going back to the kh. initially she tried to study with me, but she got the point and never talked about it. i wemt over to her house for meals, hung out, went places....there are some dubs who can be a normal friend lol.

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    Emery

    This sounds so much like a discussion between me and my life-long-best friend. He is so determined to make me see the wtbts view of the bible that he thinks that I am a total idiot. He has many doubts but he always uses the"wait on jehovah" theme to get me to rethink. The rethinkis what got me to to wake up to ttatt.

    If it's too good to be true; if it's too good to be believed, it probably isn't true or believable!

    just saying!

    eyeuse2badub

  • cultBgone
    cultBgone

    Nice job, Emery...but I have to echo the sentiment that you NOT send any further emails as they can and will be used against you in a back room not of your choosing.

    From reading the conversation, here's my conclusion: Your friend doesn't want to hear anything you have to say, as he never truly listened to you. All he did was attempt to refute you with illogical statements and a superior attitude. Be careful of sharing any more thoughts with him in written form or even on the phone as recordings will be used against you too.

    Best wishes for your continued fade!!!

    (((hugs)))

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    I don’t need any other facts.

    .

    This says quite clearly where your friend is at.

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