talesin, thank you, but I am not frustrated, I highly respect the likes of S&R, cofty, to name a few, but as a worker, I just see that there is a higher layer of Information, coming to us in surprising and undetectable ways, and it is satisfying to be a deiist.
What is spirit, exactly?
by Viviane 609 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Viviane
Interesting, prologos. You are positing that spirit is the mind, basically a brain working, intelligence. It's also DNA and information in action.
The first two are simply metaphors for things that already exist, the third is a way of saying "Prologos doesn't know" as that doesn't make any sense, both of which have been covered.
We are still no closer to an answer.
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Viviane
he truth is .....we are not privy at this time to understand
Caliber, as I said, your answer is "Caliber doesn't know". I appreciate that you admitted that rather than double down after you claimed to know.
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Viviane
Therefore our human spirit in all its guises is a combination of the brains formulation of our desires and goals for whatever purpose and the way we bring that to fruition.
That boils down to "It's a metaphor". In this case, it's a metaphor for thinking.
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Viviane
spiritual is only what each individual believes it to be.
That's an interesting one, but it's a restatement of one we have covered in the form of "it can be everything and nothing". Still no closer to ananswer.
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talesin
V
I don't believe in spirit, and have been an atheist since I was 20. I was merely trying to get that point across to prologos.
It's just a BELIEF, and as I learned long ago, BELIEF in anything closes one's mind to other possibilites.
;)
tal
EDIT: A good example of this, is the Flat Earth Society. Yes, there are still people who believe the earth is flat. Seriously. :P
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new hope and happiness
Wow this thread i think will conclude that some questions are without answers.Like many questions. Nobody has ever come to an inititive understanding of what makes a bicicle do its thing.
So my answer which i accept really is no answer, is spirit is future existence.
Now that is no answer and i cant rationalize what spirit is, but thats how i instinctivly feel it.
So as i wrote pn page 6 " what is spirit exactly?" its a word that i imagine for belivers is living in its meaning and intensity. I dont see the point of amputating from somebodys vocabulary a persond definition of that word. I mean i am grateful to Cofty for helping me so much on so many posts with my new beliefe in athisam. God i went for so many lonely walks sat up in to the early night, " please God let me feel you," he had gone. The God i belived in has become absolutely nothing, no longer the mysteriouse power over life and death.
Now back to the question " what is spirit exactly"? to me it is future existence, which is the only form of existence. And i realize that is no answer but i cant answer with deeper meaning. And if it requires deeper meaning then deeper meaning will require deeper meaning. But some questions are only answerd in isolation with our own curiosity and our own individual answers.
This thread has created so much drama, and many have left the thread maybe because there answers were answers to them. Maybe the answers are only fantazies which cant in words say exactly "how" or " why". A schizoid view, maybe, but like " BICYCLES" it works when they ride them, and thats enough.
Anyway the great thing about this discussion board is its not a tyrannical society, like the " organisation" most of us escaped from. And maybe for many like me who does mot believe in Ghosts" we still need to keep the light on. So spirit for me is " future existence"
What a lot of woffle, but it needed saying because as i said i am very grateful for " Cofty" in helping me get where i am. And that place is freedoom even if its on a row boat in the oceon with questions i cant answer to everyones sattisfaction.
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galaxie
Hi viv;..I disagree with your conclusion re that my explanation is a metaphor for thinking.
The first definition of the word spirit according to my dictionary is ; spirit noun, force giving life to a body.
That force to my understanding as a noun is basically the air we breath(mostly oxygen) that force can be calm or violent ie we still have to breathe even in a very forceful hurricane.
Force in terms of physics is seen as an influence which can produce a change or reaction to a physical system.
Our bodies are physical systems, therefore the spirit is the force which gives rise to our bodies functions which in turn causes the influence on our brains (thinking processes ) which in turn controls our actions therefore making us the people we are.
Spirit in human terms is imo not a metaphor for thinking, but rather the air we breath.
Further dictionery definitions ŕe ghosts supernatural etc believed by many , Is to me delusional hogwash.
Best wishes
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Viviane
So my answer which i accept really is no answer, is spirit is future existence.
So, there are a couple of issues here. I'll take them as I see them:
1. The future isn't here yet, it's nothing. Therefore spirit = nothing.
2. Are you saying anything that has a future existence has spirit? Rocks? Plants? Electrons? People?
3. If it's just people, does spirit die also when they die?
So far this just seems like a metaphor for either "being alive" or "don't know".
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Viviane
I disagree with your conclusion re that my explanation is a metaphor for thinking.
You wrote that's what it was. I quote: Therefore our human spirit in all its guises is a combination of the brains formulation of our desires and goals for whatever purpose and the way we bring that to fruition.
Now you are saying it's oxgygen? That is not at all what you said in the quote abov.
The first definition of the word spirit according to my dictionary is ; spirit noun, force giving life to a body.
No one has yet explained what that is yet. Simply saying it's oxygen doesn't cut it. There are things alive that don't breath oxygen. What if a life form breathed flourine or lithium?
Force in terms of physics is seen as an influence which can produce a change or reaction to a physical system.
Back up there. You just tried to take a definition that has nothing to do with physical things and turn it into one. You haven't connected the dots. And if you DO want to say life force = oxygen = force, then a bullet to the head can extinguish force, it clearly therefore must be a greater force. In fact, since oxygen is produced in the hearts of stars and only given to us via exploding stars which only happens via the coalescence of hydrogen which only happens because of gravity, you could easily make an argument that gravity is really spirit. Without it we wouldn't be here. Or the strong nuclear force. Or the weak. Or iron. Or the speed of light. Or neutrons.
At this point you are just picking of one the many things necessary for human life and going "that's it". It's random and arbitrary at best.
So far, we are no closer to an answer.