by Viviane 609 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Viviane- you really don't give a damn what spirit is this is a mockery thread.
Sorry, you don't get to tell me what I do and don't care about. You are speaking from ignorance.
Answer these cofty cofty and Viviane:
Sorry, you'll have to start your own thread if you need off topic questions answered.
The above you should be able to google and pretend you actually understand these things, which you do not
You can go now, the adults are talking.
What makes you a living thing? As is opposed to a dead thing? What makes living things live? What makes them alive verses dead? - FHN
That is a great question. I seriously think I will start a new thread on that. The answer has nothing to with "spirit" or Bergson's "elan vital". The real answer is far more interesting than that.
Villiagegirl - There is some stuff that physicists don't know yet, well done.
So what is spirit made of exactly?
viviane since you want facts - not theory, not concepts, not imagination, not emotion not relativity, not intelligence - just facts, I'd say that spirit is all of those things that you don't seem to want. Hows that as a summary of the where you seem to be heading?
Ruby--actually intelligence leads to discovery of facts....ignorance does not. Viviane and, I believe, everyone here would really like to just know some simple answers --what is spirit? Or What is it made of? Does it contain atoms?
Remember , there is wisdom is saying "I don't know". But so far there is not a shred of measurable evidence that would tell me its an entity of some sort but rather a metaphorical or figurative term used to describe traits that humans possess.
I think Ruby hit the nail on the head:
Spirit is not fact....that would make it what Ruby?
viviane since you want facts - not theory, not concepts, not imagination, not emotion not relativity, not intelligence - just facts, I'd say that spirit is all of those things that you don't seem to want. Hows that as a summary of the where you seem to be heading?
It's a terrible answer. First, it ignorantly asserts things about me that aren't true and that you couldn't possibly know, namely, what you imagine I don't want. Secondly, if that's what you really are saying, you could have just said "it's a metaphor" and left it at that.
Viv, Jon - I was taking my cue from cofty cos he mentioned Henri Bergson - is that okay with you guys?
spirit a metaphor? - please explain
Here is an answer I have carefully crafted to address the question: WHAT IS SPIRIT, EXACTLY?
Before there was logic and science there was superstition.
What is superstition but the human mind attempting to answer questions WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING of the FACTS.
In a primitive society the powers of observation play the largest role in acquiring an understanding of the world and life and death.
The very last thing a dying person does is let out a long . . . exhalation of BREATH. This is called the "death rattle."
To the family standing by the dying person, what do they observe?
1. The loved one is alive one moment
(Then they exhale air )
2. The loved one is dead.
What is the difference between a LIVING person and a DEAD person from the point of view of those observing the process of dying?
BREATH
The invisible breath.
The breath of . . .(wait for it) LIFE.
The animating force of life is invisible.
SO YOU SEE? The idea became attached to the human observers: an invisible something is the difference between living and dying.
To breathe is to reSPIRE. The SPIRIT and the breath are inextricable in the minds of primitive people.
In the Middel Ages, if a person sneezed it was thought their SPIRIT temporarily left their body and a demon might snatch it from them.
Consequently, BLESS YOU became a safeguard against that possibility.
The book of Genesis recycles the notion of "God BREATHED into his nostrils the BREATH of life and he became a living_______.
Plato (427-347 b.c.e.) was a highly influential Greek philosopher whose school of philosophy and wisdom had extraordinary influence on the world.
Plato divided up the VITAL FORCE of SPIRIT into 3 parts.
I won't go into the details--it doesn't matter at the moment.
Once Plato had introduced the division, the SPIRIT (life force) (animating invisible energy) could be only be thought of as part of a TRINITY.
One we are all familiar with today is: BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT.
The bottom line in all this?
When you don't know something you make your best guess. That guess is a stop-gap fill-in FOR FACT.
Unless you later replace the stop-gap with actual FACT it gradually becomes BELIEF.
The finalizing step in RELIGIOUS thought is the POETIC use of a BELIEF.
The metaphor of SPIRIT is all we really have with us today.
Practically every human society on Earth accepts without question the notion (and that is all it is) of SPIRIT as something
which is INVISIBLE and life-animating. But, when pressed for details you will get a shrug and a belief statement.
So, there you have it.
OPINION is what we began with, a best guess, an idea, a concept and it was carrief forward into the scientific age as ENERGY.
But--if you press a scientist or physicist for a definition of ENERGY you don't get a satisfying answer either!
It is words strung together in sentences referring to the movement of molecules at an atomic level blah blah blah.
Happy now?
I didn't think so.
The FACT of the matter is this. When you call a natural phenomenon by a TERM which is corrupted by superstition, religious metaphor and poetic exaggerations---you destroy the possibility of understanding at its most fundamental level.
You're welcome!
villagegirl, here's a bible verse that encompasses mystery:
“Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the heavens above—what can you do? They are deeper than the depths below—what can you know? Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea." Job 11:7-9 (NIV)
The bible writers however, did not have words to encompass modern discoveries and concepts as you listed such as antimatter, dark energy, the universe, quantum vaccum, alpha particles, quarks, and cosmic inflation. I don't think viviane is setting out to settle these either. These mysteries were discovered by scientists and they continue to try and unravel them, coming up with models to explaining them and testing those models in the lab.
I can guarantee that bible readers will not resolve these mysteries by parsing bible verses. These mysteries were unknown in ancient times.
The matter of a person's soul and whether it exists as a separate entity, however, there is no observational reason to demand it's existence.
Terry, we are of the same mind on this matter. You expressed my thoughts more concisely than I did. See my first answer on this thread.
Technically speaking, it is anhydrous Unobtainium Imaginate and Aetherium Phogistonide in almost equal proportions.
