by LogCon 41 Replies latest watchtower bible
Exactly Splash! "Brazen or corrupting" are the key words... They can be used to accomplish anything, any 'removing,' any 'marking,' any 'df-ing,' any anything....
I know someone who pointed out the unethical actions of a few elders, the GB, the legal dept, and was accused and df'd for "speaking abusively of the glorious ones." Hasta la vista baby!
...a non GB approved, disfellowship-worthy question:
"Did'nt James warn against having class distinctions among yourselves at James 2:4?"
Kapow! That is a good one. I will have to remember that one.
AndDontCallMeShirley,
Thanks for that thorough response. That was good. I will have to refer back to it sometime.
What clearer sign could there be than a "young woman" concieving?
LogCon - "Could you get disfellowshipped for simply asking questions?"
No.
But you could get DFed if you didn't stop asking questions.
As Shirley said :
if, after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues to believe the apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the 'slave class', then appropriate judicial action should be taken." (Letter to all Circuit and District Overseers, 9/1/80).
So it is thinking that is forbidden here, as Orwell commented in 1984
The thought police would get him just the same. He had committed--would have committed, even if he had never set pen to paper--the essential crime that contained all others in itself. Thoughtcrime, they called it. Thoughtcrime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for a while, even for years, but sooner or later they were bound to get you.
I could imagine elders saying that you were being subtle, like Satan to Eve, by asking "Is it really so??"
Having said that I have been able to have discussions on 4 occassions in 4 congs. with elder, raising my dobts and questions and nothing was ever made of it. They never wanted to "help me" after that though. But this is Britain. I get a strong feeling from this board that it is pursued much more vigourously in the USA.
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I think you are right Blues, when I think back to what I questioned with those two Elders, i.e 1914, saying that 607 was wrong, the Bible, all its errors and the lack of any reliable manuscript evidence, the existence of god, due to the prevalence of Evil etc etc etc
I think if they were American Elders my ass would have been raosted long ago.
Here in the U.K we have had a long tradition, within U.K Society, of tolerance of different views, and this more relaxed attitude is reflected in how Elders here react.
In the U.S.A it is only a few short years from Macarthyism, from the atrocities of the Apartheid regime that held sway, particularly in the South, and from the assasination of Martin Luther King.
The Totalitarian mind-set of most of the people in power in America until recent times has influenced how the W.T minions think there.
We may be lucky here to a degree, but the infrastructure is in place if a U.K Nazi-type Elder wishes to use it to bludgeon those of us who dare to question.
Depends on the questions...
Then again, honestly, why do you want to ask questions when you know the answers already? There is a distinct difference between asking a question and "questioning." In either case, a lot depends on who you are asking.
SOP
Sorry wayward post carry on!
Yes if you started asking different 'friends' and pointing out better answers that were not official doctrine from the WT
I agree with BluesBrother. I think with the right elders on a body in the right congregation (not referring to right as "correct" but as the ones who would react in the way I'm going to describe) they could view questions that clearly were designed to make other think carefully about what they believe as apostate teaching. I could see them counseling a publisher about asking others these kinds of questions (even if the publisher had been speaking to elders) to cease and desist, using Galatians 6:1 (" Brothers, even if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness. But keep an eye on yourself,for fear you too may be tempted.") Then, if the publisher didn't stop, they might disfellowship on grounds of either "brazen conduct" or straight-up apostasy. If they choose to disfellowship for apostasy, that carries such a connotation with it that it would be unlikely to win an appeal, get the branch office to reverse, or even get reinstated, because a disfellowshipping for apostasy (note that this is different from disassocation voluntarily) carries in the minds of all elders who handle the matter later that the accused is deceptive, manipulative, and basically like Satan - looking to destroy individuals and the organization.
Not sure if those comments help but just wanted to provide some insider/elder observations from real-life experience.
