JW refuses to provide wedding stationery to Gay couple

by KateWild 176 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    There was a similar case in Colorado recently, where a baker refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. The state's civil rights commission said that he does not have the right to refuse to serve someone based on sexual orientation. He decided to stop making wedding cakes.

    I am sure we will be seeing these kinds of cases from time to time. I think in the end most businesses will see that it's not good business to turn away paying customers. I also think that even those people who have a problem with gay people and gay marriage will get used to the idea and see that serving a customer does not imply they approve of their lifestyle.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    @Scully:

    The thing with neo-nazis and KKK members is that they *do* discriminate and their events promote racial segregation, hate speech, etc. Refusing to serve them, when their viewpoints are in opposition to the civil liberties of the general public, would probably be legally permissible.

    Scully, what do you mean by this? If a group is determined to hold views not widely accepted, are you saying it is OK to practice descrimination against those individuals - that is it would be "legally permissible"? But as long as you agree with the current societal consensus, then by all means, the law should protect you?

    I am curious: what is "hate speech"? Should it be protected as free speech?

    If a group wants to promote their hatred, they can find someone who shares that viewpoint to do the stationery, catering, etc. I don't see a gay couple who want to spend the rest of their lives together in a committed relationship as a violation of anyone else's civil liberties. They aren't telling the JW stationery lady that she can't go Door-to-Door™ or attend Meetings™ at the Kingdom Hall™ or gather with other JWs at a Circuit Assembly™ or District Convention™. They just want to have a celebration of their relationship with their friends and loved ones - it is none of this JW lady's business to interfere with that.

    I don't see how the gay couple is violating anyone's civil liberties either. The UK has the law, and many governments seem to be confusing negative rights with postive rights all over place. Is the state violating the business owner's rights? My question would be: Does the owner actually own the business? Is the business privately owned or not? (again, I know that the UK has the law and so for this case it is a done deal, so-to-speak. The owner will most likely get some legal action taken against her. But I am wondering wether or not it should be. I am wondering whether or not it is a good thing the law is involved in this way).

    MMM

  • exwhyzee
    exwhyzee

    The thing with neo-nazis and KKK members is that they *do* discriminate and their events promote racial segregation, hate speech, etc.

    I understand what you're saying but you have to remember, just because you may happen to disagree with the KKK or Neo-Nazis....I'm sure there are many others (not me) who agree with them wholeheartedly. They (not me) might think those groups are the only way straighten out our society. In a democracy, for better or worse, they have the freedom to believe such.

    If people are concerned about discrimination, comapratively speaking, this JW womans refusal to do this print job is a minor offence compared to the rest of the beleifs she and her religion preach from door to door everyday. When you think about it, Jehovahs Witnesses in their own way discriminate, shun and say bad things about anyone who doesn't share thier beliefs all the time and they even spread literature around the world that claims God is going to basically kill everyone but them. . If they eliminated this womans right to refuse an objectionable print job, in her own business, because of her religious convictions...how long would it be before they forced her to stop going from door to door preaching those same beliefs?

    The thing with neo-nazis and KKK members is that they *do* discriminate and their events promote racial segregation, hate speech, etc.Refusing to serve them, when their viewpoints are in opposition to the civil liberties of the general public, would probably be legally permissible.

    Probably not,especially if they all the were going to do was have a peacefull rally.

    But apparently a business owner can't descriminate against anyone who doesn't share their viewpoint on things.

    If a group wants to promote their hatred, they can find someone who shares that viewpoint to do the stationery, catering, etc. I don't see a gay couple who want to spend the rest of their lives together in a committed relationship as a violation of anyone else's civil liberties.

    Many (not me) would ask, why doesn't the Gay couple just go to a bakery or print shop that is willing to cater to them. Why infringe on someone's religious beleifs and force them to do something they don't beleive in? By forcing the issue, aren't the Gay couple being intolerant of the Baker or Printers rights? Wouldn't eventually all the intolerant bakeries and print shops go out of business if all those who disagreed with their unfair practices stopped patronizing them ? Besides, who would want to eat a cake or give their money to a business owned by someone like that anyway?

    They aren't telling the JW stationery lady that she can't go Door-to-Door™ or attend Meetings™ at the Kingdom Hall™ or gather with other JWs at a Circuit Assembly™ or District Convention™. They just want to have a celebration of their relationship with their friends and loved ones - it is none of this JW lady's business to interfere with that.

    She is not demanding that they stop being Gay, she is simply refusing to be a part of something she doesn't believe in.

    They just want to have a celebration of their relationship with their friends and loved ones - it is none of this JW lady's business to interfere with that.

    I agree, but some would say that as the owner of the print shop, it literally is her "Business". If she was just an employee of the shop it might be a different situation, but as the business owner, shouldn't she have the choice of what kind of materials she wants to print, no matter what her reason is? What if someone asked her to print up a bunch of pornographic photos, shouldn't she be able to refuse, or would that be discriminating against people everywhere who happen to love porn?

  • sarahsmile
    sarahsmile

    Yet the elder who are janitors or construction workers would not care! As long as they get a check!

  • nugget
    nugget

    She obviously had no idea of the law against discrimination nor had any idea how offensive she was being to the couple concerned. She shouldn't need a group of men to tell her what is acceptable behaviour and what is not her own humanity should inform her actions.

  • NAVYTOWN
    NAVYTOWN

    I'll bet big money that there are heterosexual members of her JW congregation who are divorced and remarried. What does the Bible say about THAT??? Would she refuse to bake them a wedding cake?? What about birthday cakes? Does she refuse to bake those based on her religious beliefs?? Halloween pastries? Easter cookies? Or is she just objecting to gays who want to get married? She sounds like a sanctimonious hypocrite to me.

  • nugget
    nugget

    She mades wedding invitations rather than cakes so she is making a very niche product. In the UK gay couples can now have a wedding rather than a civil partnership. She may have been confused since religious organisations are not obliged to carry out a wedding service for gay couples if they do not wish to, however this dispensation does not extend to commercial enterprises.

    If she provides invitations for heterosexual couples regardless of their religious preferences or living arrangements then she has no reason to refuse to provide invitations for homosexual couples. She is discriminating merely on the basis of sexual orientation .

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    Would this sister buy bread from a gay baker?

    If everyone went around quizzing shopkeepers or any business owners actually, on their sexual orientation/practices before making purchases, the economy would screech to a halt.

    JW's on their morally superior high horse. Why am I not surprised.

  • tim hooper
    tim hooper

    I guess that if a woman in a burqa was refused service the police would become involved immediately.

  • Mikado
    Mikado

    just shameful.

    judge not lest ye be judged is so esay to forget! isn't it?

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