Its unbelievable to me that one verse in the bible blows up the entire JW dogma and Its amazing to me that with all this bible reading we JW's did we missed it. Even faders and people who quit for many reasons missed it. What verse am I talking about it verse 9 of chapter 5 of Revelations. Verse 10 is were is used to stated that the 144K will become kings and rule over mankind over the earth. But verse 9 tells us who these being talked about in verse 10 are, and if you check verse 9 of chapter 7 its clear its the Great Crowd. So this one scripture blows up their whole idea of them being leaders over Rank and File christians and their whole charade collapses. This maybe the greatest TTATT scripture ever.
How stupid were we??
by Crazyguy 20 Replies latest jw friends
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HowTheBibleWasCreated
We are all stupid that we belived a book. Thus it is not so hard to prove,
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Zoos
I dunno. Rev. 7:9 talks about a great crowd that cannot be numbered. That's sounds different than a group of 144,000 (figurative or not) to serve as kings.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that I agree with the JW spin on this. Maybe my thinking is still being influenced by a life of indoctrination. But when I read these scriptures I see two different groups. So we all go to heaven to do our heavenly things but only a few are selected to serve with Christ. Maybe.
I dunno. Anymore, this stuff just gives me a headache.
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steve2
Supposedly self-evident texts pepper the f*ck!ng Bible and cause me to have sneezing fits.
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The Searcher
I disagree; the most blatant teaching of the Org is nothing less than anti-Christ & of Satanic origin - "You don't need Christ's blood and ransom sacrifice to cleanse your sins and reconcile you to God - just go out into the street and get killed by some delivery truck, and your sins will be automatically forgiven."
The Org's teaching is that Romans 6:7 is literal, and proves that a person's own death wipes out their sins!
"Death, not the dying process in itself, is the full payment for sin. The Bible says: "The wages sin pays is death." (Rom. 6:23) This means that when a person has died his sinful record no longer stands against him." ( w74 10/1 p. 607 Questions From Readers)
Interestingly, the WT CD ROM does not include ANY references to Rom 6:7 post-1995!
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Listener
Revelation 7:4 states in relation to the 144,000
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
Revelation 7:9 states regarding the great crowd
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb
John in this vision only heard the number sealed as being 144,000 and from which tribes of Israel they came from (being 12,000 out of 12 tribes of Israel but if Israel here means mankind in general then what do the individual tribes represent?) He did not see them at this stage.
After John heard the number he then states that he saw a great multitude which no man could number. If we saw a crowd of 144,000 we would not be able to count them either, we would have to set up some type of procedure in order to do this but just by looking at that many people it would be beyond us to count them.
This suggests that it was most likely the same group.
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The Searcher
On the basis of these "inspired" words from the Faithful & Discreet Slave in Brooklyn, go and sin as much as you like, because when you turn your toes up, all of your sins get wiped out - whether you became a Witness or not!
"Those resurrected will not be judged on the basis of the works done in their former life, because the rule at Romans 6:7 says: "He who has died has been acquitted from his sin." (it-2 p. 138 Judgment Day)
How stupid is this??????????????
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WTWizard
Even more stupid: Believing I needed a ransom whose life story was the archetype of the perfect slave. Hence, I needed to emulate that thing's life--and, in doing so, become a slave.
Communism.
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Crazyguy
Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song:
You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because You were slaughtered,
and You redeemed [ a ] people [ b ]
for God by Your blood
from every tribe and language
and people and nation.Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there was a vast multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language, which no one could number, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were robed in white with palm branches in their hands.
Now Rev 5:10 were they state the 144K are shown as kings over mandkind;
10 And hast made us unto our God Kings, and Priests, and we shall rule over the earth.
See it???? Now Rev 7:4 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed:
144,000 sealed from every tribe of the Israelites
Notice how the 144K our out of the tribe of just Israel yet those that will rule, are out of every nation, tongue, people, etc....
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Apognophos
Almost every scripture has another scripture that can be used to cancel it out, or an alternate way of reading the same scripture. Let's not get hung up on Bible verses.
What's amazing is that we believed anything that was based entirely on other people's assertions, such as that someone performed miracles 2,000 years ago, and died but was raised up, even though the gospels are the only record of this, and they don't agree with each other a lot of the time. It's the ultimate display of gullibility, stretching across two millennia, that people have fought and died over something with NO REAL EVIDENCE behind it. What a queer animal man is.
I think using the word "stupid", even loosely, is not productive, though. It's better to reflect on why we wanted to believe and to recognize that people have emotional needs that lead to willing suspension of disbelief. This helps us continue to empathize with people who were misled like we were, and we can help them better if we have this empathy. We're not smarter now, after all. We just stopped needing to belong to the group.