I want to know. Don't you?

by Old Goat 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Old Goat

  Some of you are probably a bit tired of me promoting these history books, but I’m doing it again. You should read the two books written by Schulz and de Vienne:

  1. Nelson Barbour: The Millennium’s Forgotten Prophet

  2. A Separate Identity, volume 1.

  They’re both available on lulu.com

  Now, down to “brass tacks.” The Watchtower hides most of its history. They have a mythology they foist on Witnesses and others. They don’t lie nearly as much as omit. Personally, I think they don’t know most of what happened in their past. Russell and his followers weren’t interested in recording anything. They thought Jesus was going to “take them home.” Whatever the cause, the Procliamers book is a failure by omission.

  Many things said here and elsewhere aren’t true either. When we spout nonsense simply because someone else told us it was true, we damage ourselves. The more accurate we are, the better we make our case. And we do have a case to make.

  Schulz and de Vienne write detailed, accurate history. If the Watchtower had done this years ago, instead of perpetuating a religious myth, I would probably have fewer issues. But they didn’t. They’re anti-intellectual, incurious, and believe their own mythology. Schulz and de Vienne strip away myth. I want their work to continue.

  They finance their research from the sale of their books and from a small amount of donations.

  As I see it, buying their books helps our cause. It informs us, and it helps further their research.

  Visit their blog at http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/ . Read through the archives. See if you don’t agree.

  Both authors, if you contact them, are open, easy to communicate with, and seem to be nice people. Schulz is a Witness. De Vienne is not. I usually forward bits of my own research to Dr. de Vienne. Schulz is nearly as old as I am and slow to answer. I want their research to continue. They’re next book, volume 2 of Separate Identity, takes us into a period of controversy. No one’s documented it. I want to know the details. Don’t you?
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  sarahsmile

  They don’t lie nearly as much as omit.

  You got that right!

  They thought Jesus was going to “take them home.”

  I really doubt that Russell believe his own dates! He had evidence of what happens when dates failed.

  Maybe he also realized even a bad date gets people reading and believing.

  Russell did not need to believe his books,he just needed others to believe in his writings.

  Also, most practising Jws probably are clueless about WT past. However, I do believe writers for the society borrow from old books and magazines. They probably have a better understanding but consider it old light.

  People are blinded in a cult mind set. They Look up scriptures and ignore the odd sentences and their founders history.

  I read crazy Rutherfords books and some of crazy Russell. Nelson Barbour he the same.There was one guy I did like but forgot his name.

  It is an age thing! and life move past history.
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  Gypsy Sam

  Marked. Thanks!
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  sarahsmile

  Many things said here and elsewhere aren’t true either. When we spout nonsense simply because someone else told us it was true, we damage ourselves. The more accurate we are, the better we make our case. And we do have a case to make.

  Yes we do have a case to make but what are you calling nonsense?

  I had to laugh a little because I use to think what they wrote here was just a bunch of lies and nonsense! My views changed when I researched quotes from here found out that the majority on here was telling the truth!

  Just saying what you call nonsense today, you might find tomorrow as truths into the WTs.
• 

  EdenOne

  marked
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  Phizzy

  Thanks O.G, without your posting this information we would probably never hear of these works, which illustrate very powerfully how the W.T sanitizes its history as it writes it, virtually nothing is as they presnt it for the early days.

  The actual events and actions of the participents show a distinct lack of guidance by Holy Spirit, which is what the W.T claims happened.
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  notsurewheretogo

  So the author who is a JW...does his book go against the doctrines of the society? Are these books therefore pro JW? If not how does he rationalize being a JW but write the true history of JW's????
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  Wasanelder Once

  Does the word "obsession" come to mind here to anybody else?
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  Earnest

  It is about time an historian's history of the early years was written. Out of interest I wonder what reaction you have received from Witnesses with whom you have shared this research, Old Goat? I'm grateful you informed the board of this research and look forward to the next volume.
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  stirred but not shaken

  The books OG refers to are the most comprehensive and well documented history of Russell and those who were known as associates at that time. For starters, he was never a second adventist and had almost nothing to do with Wm. Miller. He was associated with "Age to Come" believers. The dealings with some of those mentioned in the Proclaimers book such as George Stetson, Jonas Wendell, George Storrs, Henry Grew, W.H. Conley, etc., are well documented accounts. The authors are only interested in presenting the facts, and if there is no documentation for it, it won't be presented. I'm not so sure if Schulz is presently a JW..I don't think so.

  The work is far, far more detailed and documented than anything the WBTS has presented or could. It is at first a bit laborious, but for those who want to know where all this came from, it is well worth the read.

  After having been personally associated with the WBTS for over 60 years and being the 3rd generation, I'm still trying to unravel all the old myths. These books help put things in perspective. You will be particularly impressed with George Storrs.

  Attacking statements that some have made regarding Russell and others involved in the groups previously mentioned, are passed on without verification and can and will damage credibility. These books will help those on this board who wish to comment on the WBTS history, to be accurate and more credible. I know I've learned a ton, and only about half done with the second book.