How would you define RELIGION, and why?

by Fernando 77 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    I agree that atheism is counterintuitive. Think about how long it took humanity to develop a structure for things like logic and reasoning that could work for more than just simple and immediate problem-solving. Even now, we are still mostly emotional beings. This is why I do not expect religion or spirituality to go away anytime soon (especially the latter).

    Indeed, it is so hard-wired into our nature that atheism is treated by many as a religion, and not just by religious people as a way to create an equivalence. Many within the atheist community work hard to politicize it, which is just another form of tribalism. The fact that there is an atheist community is a humorous reminder of how trapped we are in that kind of behavior.

    I doubt I'll live long enough to see whatever the next phase of religion will look like. My fear is that it will become less about spirituality and mysticism and more about political power and domination. We might actually long for the good old days, when religion was only mostly misused by power-hungry opportunists. But that seems to be one of the curses of humanity, that we embody the old saying that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

  • enoughisenough
    enoughisenough

    i didn't put a lot of thought into this, but this is what my little is to define religion: It is people feeling like they should worship someone and not really knowing who, so they latch on to those who claim to be in contact with this someone, not fully recognizing that the one/s they have latched onto are frauds who are seeking their own glory and power over people with a false narative. I think this statement would apply to all religions. I did mention I didn't think about this for long. Why? There are many religions claiming truth and they can't all be true while likely all have some truth in them. Some truth doesn't make them true and so they are all false and so the leaders lord it over others by setting rules for how they think their god/s should be worshipped, thus empowering themselves...( so blind guides leading the blind )

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    It is people feeling like they should worship someone and not really knowing who

    I am persuaded that people really do know God, they just don't like him even though he made great effort in trying to make friends.

    Romans 1:20-21: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened"

    Origin of the diversity of life (Design? What design?)

    The origin of life is only the beginning of the problem for the materialist. Along with other atheistic biologists, Richard Dawkins has spent his life trying to deny that living things exhibit supernatural design. In the book that ‘put him on the map’, he wrote,

    “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.”15
    … how do you get gases formed in a rapidly expanding primordial universe to coalesce together?

    The diversity of life is a huge problem. How did a microbe change itself into every living thing on earth, ranging from earwigs to elephants, from mites to mango trees? For almost a hundred years, mutations and natural selection, the mechanisms of ‘neo-Darwinism’, or ‘the modern synthesis’, have been said to explain this diversity of life. However, with our modern knowledge of living things, this has proved useless as an explanation.

    In July 2008, 16 high profile evolutionists met, by invitation, in Altenburg, Austria. They had come because they realized that mutations and natural selection did not explain the diversity of life, and they had come together to discuss this crisis in evolutionary biology. The only consensus was that there is a major problem, a crisis.16

    Thomas Nagel (continuing from the earlier quote) put it this way:

    “The second question is about the sources of variation in the evolutionary process that was set in motion once life began: In the available geological time since the first life forms appeared on earth, what is the likelihood that, as a result of physical accident, a sequence of viable genetic mutations should have occurred that was sufficient to permit natural selection to produce the organisms that actually exist?”17

    Think of the supposed origin of humans from a chimp-like ape in six million evolutionary years. Modern comparison of the genomes shows such large differences (of at least 20%) that this is just not feasible, even with highly unrealistic assumptions in favour of evolution.18 Actually, it was not even feasible when the difference was incorrectly trumpeted to be about 1%.19

    Materialists have no sufficient explanation (cause) for the diversity of life. There is a mind-boggling plethora of miracles here, not just one. Every basic type of life form is a miracle.

    Genesis 1 tells us that God, the all-powerful, all-knowing Creator, made the various kinds of life to reproduce “after their kind”. Here is a sufficient cause, but even the description of the nature of living things to reproduce according to each kind has been confirmed with every witnessed reproductive event (billions of humans alone), and also in the fossil record where the transitional forms are missing20 and ‘living fossils’ testify to consistent reproduction ‘after their kind’ in thousands of species.21


    Origin of mind and morality

    The origin of mind and morality from energy and atoms has long been a problem for the materialist. It is a major theme of philosopher Thomas Nagel’s book, Mind and Cosmos, already referred to.

    A fig tree produces figs, not apples. That seems obvious. Likewise, physics and chemistry produce physical and chemical outcomes. However, mind and morality are not just matters of physics and chemistry. Sure, creatures that are physical and chemical have mind and morality, but how did such non-material things arise from the material? This is a serious problem for materialism, and the Atheist Nagel candidly admits it, to the extreme annoyance of his atheistic colleagues.22

    The famous (and reluctant) convert from Atheism to Christianity, C.S. Lewis, put it well when he wrote,

    “If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents—the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts—i.e. of materialism and astronomy—are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It’s like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milkjug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.”23
    The origin of life is only the beginning of the problem for the materialist.

    The Atheist has no sufficient cause to explain the existence of mind and morality. Magic happens!

    Why do apparently intelligent people resort to believing in magic—uncaused events—at so many points? By not believing in God they have put themselves into an irrational philosophical corner. Romans 1:21 in the Bible says that when people deny that the Creator-God exists, they end up with ‘futile thinking’. We have discussed plenty of that in this article. Richard Lewontin admitted that (leaving God out of the picture), “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs … ” (he confuses ‘science’ with materialism).24

  • menrov
    menrov

    Religion is a way of life, based on beliefs and organized by rulers.

    Not much different from Capitalism or Communism.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Sea Breeze:

    I am persuaded that people really do know God, they just don't like him even though he made great effort in trying to make friends.
    So? You’re welcome to believe whatever you like, but you don’t get to decide other people’s beliefs just because an old book makes an unverifiable claim. Good grief.

    And it was followed by more straw manning of evolution. For example:

    How did a microbe change itself into every living thing on earth

    It didn’t. And no one says it did. You’re spouting embarrassingly poor creationist arguments.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    an old book

    Yes, history books are by their very nature "old". The word of God is backed up by a man who said that he would die in payment for the sins of the world and then raise himself from the dead, while he was dead. Then, he did it. Jesus said that even inspite of his miracles, not trusting in him was far more tragic than a mere failure of intellectual ascent.

    John 10 - Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

    Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

    And no one says it did.


    Sure they do Jeffro:

    JANUARY 31, 201810:03 AM ET

    "What scientists believe to be our oldest ancestor, the single-celled organism named LUCA, likely lived in extreme conditions where magma met water — in a setting similar to this one from Kilauea Volcano in Hawaii Volcanoes National Park".

    So, all you have to do is add some sea water and fire and PRESTO! ; the coding process begins to create a library of information that can be read frontwards, backwards and three-dimensionally.... all by itself. You can go on vacation to Hawaii and observe it for yourself. Duh!

    "Not only was LUCA our most recent ancestor, said co-author Bill Martin, a microbiologist who lead the team. It was probably our first — a find that supports theories that life began around hydrothermal vents".

    Burn the "science" deniers!


  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Good grief. Unsubstantiated stories loosely based on an itinerant rabbi are not the magical ‘evidence’ you imagine them to be.

    Also, you shouldn’t try to interpret pop science as actual science. And it still doesn’t say what you said it does.

    For those playing along, See Breeze is pasting drivel from Creation Ministries International, not accurate scientific positions on anything.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Jeffro, the belief that "All life on Earth evolved from a single-celled organism that lived roughly 3.5 billion years ago" is well attested by many quotes from science journals all over the internet.

    Your announcement is simply false:

    And no one says it did.
  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    A tiresome bait and switch. The original quote to which I replied:

    How did a microbe change itself into every living thing on earth

    There was no ‘one microbe’ that ‘changed itself into every living thing’, which is a very stupid misrepresentation of adaptations between many generations of organisms. This nonsense is on the same level as ‘if people come from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?’ (Or ‘if babies turn into adults, why are there still babies?’) It’s nothing but ignorance on the part of the creationist.
  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    There was no ‘one microbe’ that ‘changed itself into every living thing’, which is a very stupid misrepresentation of adaptations between many generations of organisms.

    @Jeffro - I don't know why you are all hung up on evolutionists believing that all life on earth descended from a microbe. Take a look at this article title:

    All life today descended from a microbe

    July 26, 2016

    The article states:

    "they [microbes] lived off hydrogen, carbon dioxide and nitrogen gases bubbling through their warm, watery home. But they’re your ancestors – and the last common ancestor of all life today, according to a German genetic study... Tracing our genetic heritage through millions – let alone billions – of years is a tricky business".

    So, if in your view all life did not descend from a microbe, what did it descend from?

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