WT Says O.K. To Visit With Disfellowshipped Family Members...Discreetly!

by JW GoneBad 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Disfellowshipping is arguably WT's most powerful control measure. Allowing for even "discreet" association with a DF person undermines the fear that keeps the R&F in line.

  Aside from that, think about WT's standard argument for why the DF arrangement exists:

  1. It's a "loving arrangement" because it shakes the DF one to their spiritual senses, and

  2. it protects the congregation, the family members, and proves our "obedience" to Jehovah.

  If WT now allowed associating with a DF one to be done "discreetly", it opens a big can of worms:

  1. Does the WT not "love" DF people anymore? After all, shunning them was proof of WT's "love", so allowing association must mean they no longer love those people.

  2. Does WT no longer care about "protectiing" the flock? After all, the across-the-board mandate of shunning was for the flock's protection. If WT allows association, it must mean they no longer care about protecting the flock.

  .

  Besides, doesn't "discretion" really mean do it on the sly, pulling a fast one, being 'secretive', putting up a false appearance? WT has historically condemned this type of behavior, classing it in with lies, deception and leading a "double life".

  Finally, if associating with a DF person "discreetly" is okay with the Great Hypocrite, Jehovah™, why didn't he just tell the WT this from the very beginning and save everyone decades of grief?
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  flipper

  It sounds like BOBCAT probably heard the correct version of the alleged counsel to be " discreet in dealing with non-JW relatives ". However JW GONE BAD I can definitely accept your version as well - ESPECIALLY - if towards the end of the talk there was a rogue undercover elder trying to drop in hints of " discreetly " associating with DFed relatives. He may have done this so subtly towards the end that the sleeping JW audience , most of them missed it. That being said- if this elder did this - I guarantee you he will not only NOT be used on assembly parts anymore, but he may face stiff counseling from the District Overseer or WT Society or lose his elder position altogether. Which if he's a rogue apostate or spy- he'll wanna stop being an elder anyway eventually. So he just sped up the process by what he did during his talk ! Pretty strange stuff
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  Apognophos

  Though I didn't hear this point when I attended (I zoned out and forgot to listen for it), I think that the intended use of the word "discreet" was largely the opposite of what the OP suggested, namely that you should be "discreet" or discerning in when and how you choose to associate with DFed family. Discreet does not mean being sneaky, it means simply "having discretion". Though in practice people often use it to refer to doing things on the down-low, that's certianly not the meaning of the word in the phrase "faithful and discreet slave" (think about the actual slave of the parable, not the GB). But the speaker's phrase sounds like it was a caution to only do the minimum amount of necessary business with these family members.
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  Pitchess Co-Gen

  That's what everybody has been doing anyway ! Lol.
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  steve2

  Oh come on! This is nonsense to suggest an "easing" of the shunning standard. Even if the word "discreetly" was used, I suggest the foregoing was its intent:

  If you shun ex-brothers and sisters, please do so discreetly. Don't make a big production about spurning their affections. Remember, impression management is everything: We do not want worldly people, including kindly disposed ones, to think ill of us for upholding our special standards. Therefore, brothers and sisters, apply the principle of shunning discreetly. None of its power is lost; indeed, the more discreet you are, the more it baffles and hurts the very ones we want to come to their senses and return.
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  stillin

  Just got back from the ordeal this weekend and I was listening for it during that part.

  Sorry, I think the brother that you heard went rogue.
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  AnnOMaly

  Tech49 has said something similar on his thread:

  "There was the part about not associating with DF relatives. His wording was that we could associate with them and show them respect, as long as we were discreet. (open-ended and non-commital language)."

  I was listening out for a similar statement from the speaker (Gerald Grisel?) at the East Rutherford IC but I couldn't hear one.

  If two different speakers said the same thing specifically in connection to DFed relatives, that would be very interesting. I wish there was an audio or video of it.
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  Apognophos

  I really don't think that's how they meant "discreet". Let's think about this logically. Why would they encourage Witnesses to be sneaky in associating with DFed family? If the speakers don't specifically say the words "conscience matter" or "avoid stumbling", which they didn't, then they're not making a change and easing up on the treatment of DFed ones. The intended meaning of the word was likely what I explained above.
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  Euphemism

  There's been a long-standing exception that one can associate with DF'ed family for necessary family business; e.g. for my father, that generally meant co-ordinating care of my grandparents with his DF'ed brother. I would guess that's what the speaker was referring to--or at least how he would justify it.