How to plant the seed and create some serious cognitive dissonance??

by Bells 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Bells

  Hey :)

  For a while, I've sort of been wondering why I always check in with this board... I mean it's filled with great people of course - and is my only link to what's happening in the JW world, but I shouldn't care that much... I'm not a JW, neither is my husband - it's only his batshit crazy family who are and it shouldn't bother me that much.

  However it does interfere with my life and when I'm around them, they do somehow manage to make me feel like crap. I think it's all mad and they are most definitely stuck in a cult, however my husband - who grew up as a JW just sort of shrugs his shoulders and is a bit 'it is what it is' - it doesn't seem to offend him as much as it does me...

  Every time that I hear about a new change or scandal on here, I think 'surely this will be what wakes them up'! But nope, their faith only seems to get stronger.

  Now I know better than to get involved in a conversation around doctrine - but I'd love to be able to talk to them a bit about the UN, Beth Sarim etc - basically the things that have been mentioned over and over again as things that helped to wake people up...

  However - I am obviously scared to mention anything negative at all about the WT for they will just think that I am influenced by Satan and make life even more difficult for me.

  Has anyone had any success in regards to getting hard core JW's to actually THINK... I know it's not that simple, or there would not be so many people on this board still 'in' going through the motions because they can't get family out - however if you have had any success, I'd love to hear about it!??

  xo
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  TTATTelder

  I don't have much experience yet with trying to wake people up, but I have enough to know most don't want to be awakened.

  It is their worldview, hope for the future, and get-out-of-jail-free card all rolled into one. For some it's their hobby and passion as well.

  It is way more complex than just an argument to be won.

  Most people must come to realize it on their own somehow.

  I started opening my mind after noticing some things on my own in the organization and then slowly opening up to more info on the internet.

  Jwfacts.com was huge. Jwstruggle videos on YouTube were big. Specifically the topics that really got me were:

  1) Light getting brighter scripture taken in context

  2) faithful and discreet slave scripture actually looked at in context and analyzed

  3) the mind control cultish techniques used in the watchtower like loaded language and thought stopping phrases

  4) flip flops and ridiculous doctrine changes out of desperation and nothing close to divine inspiration

  5) 1914 and even more so 1919

  It is a hell of a process and a slow one that demands patience on our part.

  -TE
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  happy@last

  It's not easy, you have to appeal to their true personality. Have you read any of Steve Hassan's books? I've helped one of my children and am trying with another. You'll not manage with doctrine or teachings, more likely by asking about the love shown to them, or more accurately lack of love. or perhaps the guilt trips they experience etc
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  sparrowdown

  Hi Bells,

  I was "hard core" once and there were people along the way that made me think.

  It was a process though, I don't think I could point to any one conversation or person.

  It was an accumulation over many years. What breaks the camels back will be different for everyone.

  In the end for me it was the cold, callous attitude displayed by many in the cong that caused me to seriously question.

  The conditional love, the judgemental attitudes, and moral superiority. It all felt wrong.

  Your husband has been conditioned since birth to accept this behaviour as normal so he probably does'nt see it.

  If your in-laws are happy being JW's the odds of them waking up are small.

  Most people don't change anything major in their lives until the pain of staying becomes greater than the pain of changing.

  Even then it is hard.

  But all the best to you and I hope they wake up.

  Sounds like you are doing the best you can with a difficult situation.

  Sorry I couldn't be of more use.
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  villagegirl

  Your husband may still believe many of the doctrines himself.

  He may be unable to believe anything else, this does happen.

  Alcoholics call an ex-addict who does not drink, a "dry drunk".

  Because they exhibit all the characteristics of an addict,

  one of which is "All or Nothing" behavior.

  Be perfect or a complet slob. No in betweens.

  Many ex-jws still think the Watchtower "has the truth"

  But they keep this secret from other people.

  The reason you feel like crap around them is they are subtly

  "shaming" you. Its a very effecitive manipulation. I am glad

  you are so self aware. The core belief starts with the Governing Body.

  A belief that eight men are the "sole communication between mankind and God"

  The Governing Body claims to speak for God, like a prophet, but they deny

  they claim they are prophets. They are regarded as having some special powers.

  Don't believe the witnesses when they tell you otherwise. They lie about their

  own belief system because they can't really explain it.
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  A.proclaimer

  What do they say or talk about to you? How do they respond? Some information you can give may help to find ways to tackle. I think evidence is important rather than just saying. It's more convincing to read the information whether it be a letter or watchtower or document. But that may spark suspicion since you were never a JW. You could always talk about disagreeing with the blood doctrine or point out how it's illogical. Doctrines that dont have a full biblical meaning but connected with outside information gives a chance in battle. Patience and time can take to reason.
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  joe134cd

  Every time that I hear about a new change or scandal on here, I think 'surely this will be what wakes them up'! But nope, their faith only seems to get stronger.

  Hopefully I can give you some insight into their mind set, as a person speaking from personal experience. The reason the various scandals don't wake them up is that they probably don't know they exist in the first place. I was JW for just under 40 years and I was oblivious to the dramas they get involved in. I was so in the dark I used to think how wicked the catholic church was in how they covered up child abuse. Little did i know that Wt was also quietly dealing with the same problem. Looking back on it (and it's also comments I frequently hear from other posters) I'm just stunned at how oblivious I was. In the past I had delt with people who had apostate material. But reasoned on it as been satan,human imperfection,or an angry ex member who had an axe to grind etc, and of course this just blocked it out for me. There has to be some external influence (e.g treatment they received something they dont agree with etc)that they can only reach by themselves that can get them thinking and trust me confronting them with a barage of apostate ideas will not be the trigger point- well it certainly wasn't in my case. I had a set of circumstances that allowed me to open my mind, and surprisingly to start with none of it was doctrinal or operational scandals. That came latter as I got further into it. I can give you a very good example of a family that had a trigger point that lead to them becoming full blown apostates was when the congregation refused to allow their sons memorial service to be in the KH after he committed suicide. The boy had had troubles over a number of years, and I sincerely believe he was not in his right mind. Your extended family may never get to a trigger point, and you can only assist them if they do but let me reassure you that showing them CoC or 50 years a watchtower slave will only close them down and inevitable shut you out of their lives once they know your motives. If you want I am happy to discuss this matter privately with you.
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  joe134cd

  I suppose in summary what I am trying to say is that direct apostasy never works.
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  tornapart

  Could you perhaps find out about another cult religion, Mormons, Scientologists, Worldwide Church of God, Moonies etc... then ask them what they think about it. Talk about all the things in that religion that do the same things as the WT, ie the control of thinking, behaviour and emotions, hiding their history, information control, shunning etc...(without mentioning JWs at all). Get the cogs turning in their brain. They may not see the link but it will make them feel uncomfortable about it. Also ask them what they think about Harold Camping and his false prophecies. Making them think about these things without them connecting the dots at the time may well help them connect the dots at a later time when the thoughts are triggered.
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  DesirousOfChange

  It's obvious to them that Jehovah is not "drawing" you to him as you do not have the right heart attitude. Further, Satan is clearly blinding the mind of unbelievers (you). Any attempt you make to show them anything negative will make you part of Satan's Seed and they'll eventually avoid you once you prove yourself that wicked.

  I believe the best method is "sincere" questioning. They must earnestly think they have a chance of converting someone and that it is their responsibility to explain it all and answer every question. They must never think you are trying to "trip them up".

  The best thing is to let them see how blessed your (inactive) husband & you are in life. You must be doing something right (and it ain't by being a JW) if God is blessing you so. Of course, if you're having a miserable life, it's because you don't serve Jehovah.

  Doc