Ramifications for Wt if Finnish government was successful in prohibiting shunning

by joe134cd 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  joe134cd

  I was just thinking today of the ramifications for the Wt if the government of Finland was successful in its case against shunning practices, and eventually this was implemented all around the world.

  The question this would raise is do they obey gods commandments or that of mans. Jehovah has implemented a scriptural policy through the FDS of disfellowshipping. It's a loving provision that helps the wrong doer see the errors of his ways and draws him back to Jehovah. However Caesar disagrees and says if you carry on like this then we are going to put some heavey restrictions on you. We will fine you and possible close you down.

  So if Wt back track on shunning then how do they explain it to a family who haven't spoken to a disfellowshipped son/daughter in years. If they carry on with saying that the shunning policy dosnt exists, or that it's a conscious matter, then the line becomes very blurred. Sooner or later because of ambiguity someone will end up talking to a disfellowshipped individual.

  How do you enforce something that is unenforceable, with the official policy of no we don't shun when in reality the opposite is the case and especially with the threat of legal action. Then again how do you explain to the R&F that you are only going to obey God as ruler as long as it dosnt interfere with obeying Caesar. Remember some witnesses have lost their lives for the rules of Wt.
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  Divergent

  Have a read at the official policy:

  Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Shun Former Members of Their Religion?

  Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.

  We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. The Bible clearly states: “ Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. ”—1 Corinthians 5:13.

  What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.

  Disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services. If they wish, they may also receive spiritual counsel from congregation elders. The goal is to help each individual once more to qualify to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again.

  Source: http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

  "Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but..... are not shunned

  IF, HOWEVER....."
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  Zoos

  So if Wt back track on shunning then how do they explain it to a family who haven't spoken to a disfellowshipped son/daughter in years.

  Accomplishing this trick is only half of the equation. The other half will be in convincing those that have been shunned that their ex-family members are worth talking to.
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  Splash

  Has this changed recently on jworg?

  I was certain there was no admission of shunning on there at one time!

  Splash
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  Phizzy

  I certainly hope the Finnish Government has success with this locally, if only for the resulting Publicity, as the W.T are bound to Appeal, they will eventually have to take the case to the European Courts, as Finland is a member of the European Union.

  Even if the Finnish Government win locally, and then in Europe, as the O.P says, enforcing the non-Shunning is well nigh impossible I would have thought, but I can see a softening of advice from the GB/WT that would enable all but the most rabid JW to virtually ignore the policy.

  Do we see this starting with the recent advice on this matter from the GB ?
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  punkofnice

  So if Wt back track on shunning

  They won't............the protection of their precious paedophiles is of more importance.

  then how do they explain it to a family who haven't spoken to a disfellowshipped son/daughter in years.

  If it came to it then it was 'your choice' just like 1975 they'll accept no blame.
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  prologos

  joe 134-- : did you say "--fine you and close you down--"? meaning not fine shunners and close down shunners, but the wt branches, congregations that shun?

  If it touches money, wt will comply and 'oficially' change, and let the R&F bear the brunt of persisting in applying PERSONALLY all "biblical' instructions. see Malawi.
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  ragnarok75

  I've ben following this case and I can predict with good confidence that the Finnish government isn't going to pursue this.They've had their nice little chat with local Bethel pr-men and that's it.They know all too well that you can't legislate these things.

  However,this was all over the news for days and THAT in itself was great.General public's awareness of the evils of Watchtower was certainly rised dramatically.

  On top of that,the WT pr-men resorted to such blatant lying that it cannot have gone without noticing by a lot of witnesses.Actually,a relative of mine (who identifies himself as a witness,and goes to meeting and field sercice,but has some doubts) called me very annoyd and said :"why do they have to lie.." referring to Bethel's pr-men.
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  Focus

  Sadly, ragnarok75 is correct.

  This Whorelike Borganization is adept at lying.

  Further, legally "specific performance" is unenforceable. You can take a donkey to water... If individuals claim they want to shun, how can the state intervene?

  The fix is demolition of the whole rotten edifice.

  --

  Focus

  ("Shoe" Class)
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  metatron

  I don't think df'ing is needed for the maintenance of the organization. They could get by just fine without it.

  I'm talking about official df'ing - Witnesses are eager shunners otherwise.

  Their maintenance of df'ing results in horrific press as testimony about sexual acts being luridly examined by vile elders gets exposed.

  Further, df'ing or the threat of being df'd is being used to conceal hard crimes, as with getting people to shut up about child molestation.

  Figure out a way to get df'ing to interfere with cash flow and you might be surprized at what happens.

  metatron