Open challenge to "Dr" Rolf Furuli and Greg Stafford - DEBATE.

by Focus 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  AnnOMaly

  Interesting to learn, especially as I was part of this debunking process while it was actually happening.

  How about that! I'm not often accused of hiding my light under a bushel, lol, but if I can do that in my sleep... well...

  Great. Then you went and did other things while more pro-WT 'research' was lobbed in, while some continued fighting the fine fight and others joined the cause. Look, I get it. You were swashbuckling away in the early, legendary days of online JW debate while I was figuratively still in diapers. But what realistically do you want to happen here after so much water has sloshed under the bridge? Neither Stafford or Furuli would be seen dead here - F. certainly not and you will get nothing, NOTHING, from him.

  Appearances can be deceptive. ...

  Your appearance as a nut with a personal vendetta so old it's grown blue fur is just a smokescreen?

  Perhaps this progressive revelation assists you.

  It doesn't.

  Hey, I guess you remember 'Joshua92'(?) and pseudo-'scholar' Neil.

  Ann (of the 'tent pin-wielding Jael' class)
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  Focus

  Joshua92

  aka Bibleman? With his solitary (female?) dim-witted disciple who finally dumped him? The one who was very ignorant of scrapture, claimed to be the returned Messiah (and that this revelation came to him on awakening in a dumpster truck) and was proven true to him by some blurred image of clouds that he would produce on occasion?

  Yes, I do recall that.

  You are an intelligent and amusing poster, Ann. I appreciate that. As to perceptivity, I'm less certain.

  As to the two apologists, I have no illusions they would ever come here. I intend to take the battle to them.

  Let's start with IKEA, ever sensitive about its own unsavory Nazi past. Given the WTS's fawning letter to Hitler (and Himmler's stated aim that his SS could become as unflinchingly loyal as the Bibelforscher / Earnest Bible Students / "Purple triangle" Class), and Rolfie's enabling of the WTS's demonic eschatology, perhaps some mileage can be had.

  __

  Focus

  ("Hitting Back" Class)
• 

  AnnOMaly

  aka Bibleman?

  That's him. My fave muppet. It would be more appropriate to call him 'Legion' for his names are many.

  I intend to take the battle to them.

  How? Or is that information classified?

  ... perhaps some mileage can be had.

  Again, you'd likely come across as somebody rather unhinged and not be taken seriously ... unless that is your intent.

  Ann (of the 'sees more than she let's on' class)
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  Focus

  What makes you conjecture, Ann, that it would be a direct contact with IKEA by myself - or myself posting in the manner I do here?

  That isn't the way it's done. One catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.

  But it works better if the targets know that one of their ancient friends has returned.

  __

  Focus

  ("Clause" Class)
• 

  problemaddict

  Not to but in here, but I used to really enjoy and think of myself as an apologist in training 7 or 8 years ago. Back when there was touchstone forum, scripturaltruths.com, and of course Greg has not yet recanted his defense of JW's.

  Same with the now defunct jehovah.to site (didn't the former web master leave the organization?....Heinz?)

  Starting to explore and research those PRO JW avenues, actually helped me open my mind to research and think myself into a few quandries that had no answer. Blood made the wall fall down.

  While iw as enjoying reading Stafford, Hall Flemmings, SolomonLanders, and the rest......I do wonder why ALL apologetics of any note seemed to have completely dried up?

  Nobody seems to know.
• 

  Focus

  I do wonder why ALL apologetics of any note seemed to have completely dried up?

  They didn't like the virtual beatings they got.

  Not everything "we" did made it into the forums over the past decade. Most of it did not.

  As to forum-visible material: I do recall finishing off some half-baked "professor" from a third-rate US university who decided to defend Furuli the Unresearcher and the evil NWT... the man claimed to be a language expert, but every fifth sentence he wrote in his mothertongue (English, he confirmed) contained some grammatical error or solecism. What odds he was any good at anything else? He soon ran off, having had enough chastisement. I remember Farkel being around to watch, and thought I'd been too cruel. Knowing Farks, that meant I should have been gentler so we'd have had more fun with the fool.

  __
  Focus

  ("jehovah.to --> BIN" Class)
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  AnnOMaly

  What makes you conjecture, Ann, that it would be a direct contact with IKEA by myself - or myself posting in the manner I do here?

  Ahh, now you ass-u-me I conjectured that it would be a direct contact with IKEA. I indicated nothing of the sort.

  Nevertheless, cobbling together Nazi-IKEA-WTS-Furuli connections, however sweetly you spin it, however well-aimed at your intended targets, you will still come across as cuckoo.

  Ann (of the 'keeps it real' class)
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  AnnOMaly

  While iw as enjoying reading Stafford, Hall Flemmings, SolomonLanders, and the rest...... I do wonder why ALL apologetics of any note seemed to have completely dried up?

  (You do know that Solomon Landers passed away early last year?) I agree with Focus about the virtual beatings. My take on it is below. Because I'm lazy, I'll c&p my comments from another forum:

  ... the major reason is the leadership's counsel against engaging with former and current members who are critical of or challenge JW teachings. By calling them the worst name imaginable to a JW, the a-word ('apostate'), which is almost synonymous with 'satanic,' they are instilling a gut-felt aversion to these people and thus closing down JW minds to any criticisms and challenges, regardless of how valid they may be.

  Of course, there will always be some JWs who disregard the Governing Body/'faithful and discreet slave's' counsel, but they will be in the minority. However, given the frequent and strongly-worded reminders by the leadership over the past few years, encountering real JW apologists on discussion forums will probably become increasingly rare. I think the glory days of JW debate on the internet (late '90s - late 2000s) are gone now.

  ------

  Moreover, what confidence does a JW defender have any more in arguing the Org's position? With the Org. transitioning and reinventing itself these past few years, and all the recent doctrinal overhauls (likely much more is to come), e.g. the new identity of the 'FDS' and the timing of its appointment or the embarrassing 'overlapping generation' teaching, rugs have been pulled from under the JW defender. What was once thought a solid position no longer is, and some of the new understandings are more confusing than the previous ones. Sensible people will only fight for an argument when they think they have a strong case.
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  designs

  'demonic eschatology' really...
• 

  Ocean1111

  Just a side note.

  Having studied JW theology and many of it's critics and viewpoints since say 1990, I find a rather interesting trend in debate. In them older days of twenty years ago much focus was on "theology". Now-a-days I would venture to say well over half the debate is now over Bethel's non-theological scandals, alliances (like the UN NGO) and actually criminal policies, like the "pedophile paradise".

  I realize after 1990 more Bethel criminal activity began making the public record, but interesting it is how scandal and crime, right from Bethel itself, soon overtakes theology. Though it is a guess on my part, it just seems to be the whole focus is now twice removed from the Bible. And it appears the worst and actually classic "apostasy" is right at Bethel, the core fueler of modern JW debate, and not even about "spiriutal things".

  It's hard to imagine a GB that actually has a full time job assessing all this, and cannot see it, in fact it is impossible. To lode 12% "market share" in growth, and yet say "the ministry is at apex" is simply astounding, but indicates, as strange as it sounds, this is by design. It is too brilliantly "stupid" to be random.