R and me, part 2

by Pistoff 12 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    So I am at the funeral for the son of an old mentor of mine and my closet truth friends.

    (I talked about R in a previous post, he was the most formative person in my life in the truth, and those of my family and friends.)

    I was pulled aside by R's wife; she tells me that R wants to talk to me.

    (I recall the last convention I went to, maybe 2006, where R attended; he found his way to me and my family and said it was worth coming to the convention, having run into me and my extended family.

    This is not like R, to be emotional and show it; when he was younger, he was the definition of the stern figure, the disciplinarian in the kingdom hall.

    Not the raving rule monger some are, but just hard-line in that quiet way.

    As the congregation servant and the one to make the decision, he would not allow a good friend of mine, married in the 60's, to have a train on her dress; too like the world, too showy, apparently.)

    So I wondered what he might say to me at this emotional time, the funeral of his son, a cancer victim in his early 50's.

    The funeral talk was the usual bait and switch witness funeral talk; tiny bits of personal touches, in the midst of heavy handed references 'this is what his hope was', 'this is what he believed'.

    They always leave me yearning for more of the person, and less of the party line.

    So we make our way over to the community center where the after funeral lunch was held, and after a time, I wander over to talk to R.

    When he sees me, I get from him the old look, so familiar, where he tips his head back slightly and just off to the side, and nods slightly, giving me a bemused look; what does this look say, I am trying to figure out?

    I extend my hand, and say, Hello R, sorry for your loss.

    Again I am surprised; the very formal R ignores the extended hand and draws me into a fierce bear hug.

    I am so taken aback I hardly notice that R is wearing a thin back brace; the idea of this tough as nails brother wearing a back brace gives me pause.

    He draws back, but not far; he is still uncomfortably close to me, still hanging onto my arms.

    He asks me that question we all have heard and maybe continue to hear when we see our witness friends:

    “ Are you OK? Are you really OK?

    I heard you have not been attending meetings. Are you OK?”

    This is accompanied by the heartfelt look, with just a tinge of sympathy, you know the look.

    ME: “I am fine, R.”

    R: “Has someone offended you? I keep hearing things.”

    Me: “No, R; I am fine, really, you don't need to worry about me.”

    R: “Because if someone has said something to you or offended you, I know how that is. People have said things to me, too.”

    I so want to know what he is trying to say, but can't bring myself to ask. This is a rare show of, what, weakness, humanity, from someone I know as the rock.

    He presses the issue:

    R: “I think of you as like a son to me (this is very hard to hear, I have a hard time hiding tears, as he has just lost his son); we have been through a lot together and you can tell me anything. I think of the times I have spent with you and your family, you can tell me anything.”

    I am just not ready for this insistent push, and I tell him I will come by sometime and tell him what is on my mind.

    R: “And I will listen, and then maybe I can tell you, and you can listen to me.”

    We stay at the funeral for a time, with a few friends and family members (active witnesses) so curious about what R said to me, having seen the embrace and exchange. Some ask me what he said; I tell them most of it but not about him wanting to tell me something.

    Maybe they wonder if he has asked me the hard questions they have not been able to ask.

    It takes me a while after I leave the funeral to realize that R might have been reaching out to me; it seems like he needed an ear to hear what he was going through.

    After a few days, I realize I probably can't help this old friend and mentor, that I am no longer living in the same world he is in.

    I can't tell him that all will be well, that soon the new world will be here and he will see his son again, though it crosses my mind that maybe I should.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I have very mixed feelings about R.

    When I consider the worldview I took on as a result of him mentoring me and being around my family, I realize how hard line and unrelenting his view (and mine) of the truth was, but my memories of the man are not unpleasant, and I feel a real loss at not being able to drive over to his home, where he now has lots of time on his hands to think about things, and just listen to him.

    Sigh.

    At times I wonder how I would have looked at the truth if me and my friends had been mentored by K instead, a really great brother who just looked at things so much more openly.

    (K also jumped on the '75 bandwagon, quitting his very good job at the state in the early 70's and eventually needing the financial support of children and grandchildren.

    K passed away a few years ago, and his wife just recently.)

    I don't want to be there at the hall any longer, but as these old oak trees of my youth weaken and fall, it hurts just the same, and more than I expected.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    My guess, not having been there myself of course, is that you symbolize his son to him and that's what the emotion is about.

    I had a similar thing happen when an old peer of mine got into some trouble at the kh--I think DFd. Her dad came to see me and broke down emotionally, begging me to come back to the meetings because he didn't want me to die at Armageddon. He had never had any sort of emotional discussion with me ever, and this conversation took place in a public area with people he did not know observing in shock.

    “And I will listen, and then maybe I can tell you, and you can listen to me.”

    That could mean he wants to express doubts, but it really sounds to me like he wants to bring you back to the fold.

  • Iown Mylife
    Iown Mylife

    Thank you for writing, the descriptions are clear and i could imagine just what it was like.

    I tell you what, my first impulses are rarely good. But even so, my first impulse is to suggest writing R and his wife a card with a note saying all the good stuff, especially how he meant a lot to you as a young guy. And how you have simply taken a different road in life. Then if you want to, say that you would enjoy visiting them but not to talk about religion.

    We knew some of the old elder guys that were in the process of being pushed out, when we first started attending meetings. They would be real nice and friendly to us and we enjoyed hearing their stories and enjoyed associating with them. They would talk a lot about how the org was changing and how they didn't like it! lol Listening to them we could also tell how they had that old attitude about women. I would pick up on those put-downs, that they thought should not offend me.

    Now we're old and if we were still "in" we would be the ones getting pushed aside. But instead we are living our gray-headed years without all the pressure and confusion.

    Having been around watching how much the older men loved talking to my husband, I imagine that R would jump at the chance to spend some time with you. You are a person who remembers him when he was young, not just seeing him as his elderly self. And maybe the years have brought him some wisdom, meaning he's not so absolute in his convictions anymore.

    Marina

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Marina:

    " Having been around watching how much the older men loved talking to my husband, I imagine that R would jump at the chance to spend some time with you. You are a person who remembers him when he was young, not just seeing him as his elderly self. And maybe the years have brought him some wisdom, meaning he's not so absolute in his convictions anymore."

    Maybe so.

    I was surprised at the strength of the old connection, maybe he recalls the days spent together back before Armageddon.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    @rebel8:

    " That could mean he wants to express doubts, but it really sounds to me like he wants to bring you back to the fold."

    Could be; I know that he is not well enough to attend anymore, but as we know here, the belief can stay strong for years.

  • Mikado
    Mikado

    I would do as iown mylife suggests. send him a loving supporting letter, just our of human kindness. he's in a bad place, be kind

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    I have really appreciated the kind and sympathetic way you have shared this experience about you and R, my friend. Returing to the hall, even for a funeral or memorial service, took a great deal of strengrh and love as well. I think the counsel Marina and rebel8 have shared is sound and I want to encourage you to take it because I think that both of you will benefit. I have nothing to add to what they have said except to say that remembering good times with old friends can facilitate healing and recovery. I wish both of these for you and R.

    Quendi

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Thanks, Mikado and Quendi; it felt good to have written it.

    I wasn't ready for the feelings that came over me when going to that particular funeral.

    It was a reminder to me that while I view the doctrine and organization as not real and bogus, the connection to people was real.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Reading the responses has made me realize I will probably send him a card, thanks all.

    P

  • MissFit
    MissFit

    Bttt. I enjoyed both threads. I hope some how you guys can reconnect.I also agree that sharing some of your memories with him would mean a lot better to him.

    Will there be a part 3?

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