Exodus 24:10 - The Israelites saw Jehovah? Has this scripture ever been explained? (page 2)

truthseeker

illustrated:

70 elders saw God -----------------> no man can see God and live

contradiction

therefore

70 elders saw a vision of God (could be anything) ---------------> no man can see God and live

no contradiction

I agree. I was simply giving the rationale that I think was used by the Society in translating the verse (may the ghost of Fred Franz correct me if I'm wrong). As you said, the translators rendered the account in a way that avoided uncomfortable implications. In fact most Bibles do this, in one place or another.

designs

with Peyote all things are possible...

NAVYTOWN

No matter which translation of the Bible is used, it's still all complete nonsense.

fulltimestudent

Compare the text with the Genesis account commencing Ch. 18:1.

After 99 y.o Abraham circumcises 13 y.o. Ishmael etc, (Gen. 17:22-27) Yahweh and two other "men" appear to Abraham . Abraham wants to wash his feet and give him some food etc, and Yahweh agrees. Yahweh and the two others who are later identified as angels separate, and the the two angels go onto Sodom, whereas Yahweh just goes on his merry way, (vs 33).

As you see, the concept of what God is and does seems to undergo a lot of modification, particularly if you start from Genesis 1, where this superbeing can create 'the heavens and the earth,' but within 18 chapters can have hs feet washed by his worshipper.

In point of fact most ancient peoples imagined "God" as being able to move among humans, unidentified as "God."

Bart Belteshassur

Apognophos and truthseeker,

You are both right. In verse 10 the word means to physically see or comprehend something, and in verse 11 it can be used of a vision. However a better understanding of verse 11 is that of divine revaltion from the seeing in versr 10 and which led to the covenant.

The WT do mess with the true meanings of words but in a similar instance they translate Luke 10:18 as in the new NWT "I see Satan already fallen" and as in the previous version, "I began to behold Satan already fallen,"when it is clear that the Greek word used here is to actual witness be a spectator physically at a theatre or event. This is done to prevent satan falling from hevan before 1914, so they imply it is a prophetic vision of seeing when in fact the NT specifically states that Jesus was present when the event happened in the past when he is speaking..

BB

Apognophos

However a better understanding of verse 11 is that of divine revaltion from the seeing in versr 10 and which led to the covenant.

Ah, interesting suggestion. I wasn't sure why the writer would use "chazah" right after using "raah" to describe the same event.

in a similar instance they translate Luke 10:18 as in the new NWT "I see Satan already fallen" and as in the previous version, "I began to behold Satan already fallen,"when it is clear that the Greek word used here is to actual witness be a spectator physically at a theatre or event. This is done to prevent satan falling from hevan before 1914

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that the new NWT rendering or the old one is obscuring that Satan's fall was being said to have already happened?

westiebilly11

Who wrote or decided that God can't be seen.?...

Bart Belteshassur

westiebilly 11 - John 1;18 "No man has seen God at any time,"

Apognophos - The old NWT inserts the words " began to" and translates saw as see to make this a future and not a past event. The new NWT uses the word see instead of saw giving the implication of a prophetic vision in the future. The word here in Greek is the past tense of to spectate as I explained ealier. As this event has evidently happen recently in the passed and Jesus has not been in "heavan" since his birth, it implies that the fall of Satan from heaven happen on earth and makes this event quite normal as Satan most be a person on the earth as Jesus is. Thats how I understand it.

BB

Apognophos

westiebilly11, please also read Ex. 33:18-23, where God tells Moses that the only way he can survive seeing God is for Moses to see His back after He has passed by. The odd thing is that a few verses before this, Moses is speaking to God "face to face". It seems that some editor of the passage considered the "face to face" part too uncomfortable, and added his own "correction" to the end.

Bart, I see what you mean now. All other Bibles seem to render this as a simple "I saw [or "watched", or "beheld"] Satan falling from heaven". Compared to that, both the old and new NWTs make it sound like Jesus is having a vision, and in that case it could be a vision of a future event (as JWs believe it is). But the simple past tense of "I saw" makes it sound as if he actually saw this occur while his 70 disciples were out preaching, healing, and expelling demons (Luke 10:17).

Exodus 24:10 - The Israelites saw Jehovah? Has this scripture ever been explained?

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