The Bible Teach book illustration about the child having to be put through a painful operation

defender of truth

Had you going there for a minute ;)
Now you're here..
There are several problems with that illustration, as I see it.
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1) God is the one who inflicted the life threatening ailment that requires an operation.
(He supposedly decided what sin would be defined as, then once Adam 'sinned', He cursed all of Adams descendants to sin, grow old and die.)
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2) He is not a helpless parent with a dying child who has no choice but to go through with the operation..
He is more like an egocentric specialist doctor overseeing the work and watching his own child suffer.. And He could cure the infant at any time, WITHOUT the need for a long and painful operation, and yet CHOOSES NOT TO, in order to show that people cannot live happily and eternally in an ailment free world where nobody can be harmed- (which is meant to be the successful outcome of the operation in this illustration) - without completely submitting to Him and obeying His every word..
Which has ALREADY been proven, seeing as He is the only person that has the skill to bring about the successful outcome of this cruel 'operation', anyway. All the patients and their parents KNOW that THEY can't achieve this, as it is physically impossible, and beg that He would just cure them, without all of the suffering and dying.
But He just decides to keep putting a countless number of infants through the painful operation anyway, in an endless stream of crying, pain and finally death..
Apparently because He is patient, and waiting for the miniscule percentage that might live through this agonising operation and come out successfully. (an operation, remember, that He invented after first inventing and inflicting the ailment).
In summary, He could cure His child and skip the operation, but He chooses not to.. to prove that nobody else can.
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3) There are countless infants who will go through the terrible and painful operation, only to be actually murdered by God, at a completely unknown time (Armageddon), just because their parents happen to be alive at the time, and disagree with His neglectful parentage, or are speaking out against the cruel 'operations' on infants that He decided were necessary, or they simply had the private opinion that He was not actually a loving person, or even someone they could have empathy for, but rather an egocentric murderer.
Ironically, after He kills the children, and their parents who thought of Him in this way (at Armageddon), they would have been proven to be correct. Not much comfort, though.

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4) If there was an issue with a fellow doctor (Satan); who challenged that no parent or their child would go through a horrific and painful operation, that was unnecessary except for the purposes of the challenge, whilst doing whatever He (God) said.. along with holding Him in high regard, thinking of Him as fair and just, and even loving Him, whilst experiencing pain and suffering caused by the ailment He gave them and the operation He put them through..
Why did He not simply kill, render speechless or even just ignore the other doctor (Satan) who challenged Him?
Let me guess, because it wouldn't prove the other doctor wrong?
If some sadistic man said to you, 'Hey, I bet that.. if you were to give me your children, each one for an undefined time, maybe just for a day or maybe for over a hundred years..
I want to emotionally and physically torture them, cause them to suffer infinite types of agony whilst they call to you for help, and you would have to ignore their tears and pleas for rescue.. whilst you stand there and watch it all happen.. I bet they wouldn't still love you, think you are the best and most loving parent possible, and do anything you say throughout that time. Don't worry though, you can have them back and bring them to life, even give them eternal life when I'm through with them.. just as long as they are one of the few that will pass the test, or you'll have to leave them dead for giving up on you and being disloyal'.

..What would you do? Especially bearing in mind that this guy (Satan) had already tried to get your kids to do something that would get them killed, right in front of you (think 'story of the forbidden fruit', they were told they would die and Satan knew that, so he effectively tried to get them killed, bear with me here).
Even if he wouldn't shut up, would you feel that you HAD TO prove the guy wrong? Or would you: restrain him in some way/ignore him/render him unconscious/kill him? Surely you'd do anything but accept the challenge..
Would your sense of 'fairness' and 'justice' cause you to feel that you had NO CHOICE except to settle the issue with that sadistic man once and for all?

designs

Abused kids make excuses for their abusing parents, religious people make excuses for their god.

Comatose

If god knows everything and can not be wrong ever... Then the answer to this question on Universal Soveriegnty has been settled since it was raised. He COULD have killed Satan and fixed the issue. ALL of the angels if they existed would know he was right in doing it. There can be no question since god can't be wrong...

scam alert

sir82

Silly defender, JW illustrations aren't designed to be considered for more than 5 seconds. Any longer and they crumble into dust.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

I think the greatest logical problem with that illustration is that there only needed to be one "operation" on one "child". Christ underwent death to remove sin and suffering from all mankind.

Here we are 2000 years later and "children" are still being wheeled in for "painful operations" because... why?
Let's review... It's a cult!

defender of truth

Did anyone like or think that any part of the OP was any good?
The darn thing took about 2 hours to write...
*sighs dejectedly*

What Now?

Marked. Because I thought it was a great post 'defender of truth'.

Funny now how we used to think it made perfect sense.

whathappened

I love your post and am on my way to have dinner with my ex JW sister and will share your perceptions with her.

This reminds me of the illustation about the alcoholic who wouldn't be allowed by his doctor to take alcohol intraveinously so that blood transfusions are the same thing. It doesn't make any sense because a doctor would give an alcoholic alcohol intraveinously if it would save the alcoholic's life.

The other illustraion is about miracles. The Watctower says years ago, people wouldn't have believed that jet planes could transport us so far so fast and compared that to miracles that happened in the Bible. Lousy logic the Watchtower uses. It all needs to be trashed.

defender of truth

Woohoo! Ahem. Thanks guys..
Good point here:"Funny now how we used to think it made perfect sense."
..It isn't even that long ago, when I believed that God was a loving parent, and that temporary suffering was necessary. The question of animal suffering is what really forced me to think about the God I worshipped (off topic I know)..
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222352/22/Theists-why-does-God-allow-suffering#5053079

stuckinarut2

Great thread!

Thanks for the good reasoning.

The Bible Teach book illustration about the child having to be put through a painful operation

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