For Band on the Run-My Chinese Experiences

by fulltimestudent 10 Replies latest social current

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Band on the Run, stated on another thread, that rather than hearing that China is now the world's greatest manufacturer of cars (something, I guess, no red-blooded American wants to hear), that her preference is to hear about:

    If you are in China, I would much rather hear about your experiences. How much freedom do Christians have? Does it vary in urban or rural areas? How is Mao treated by the government? Are there KHs in China?

    So OK - let's do it!

    First, I don't live in China (though, I wouldn't mind living there) but I have visited China on about 12 occasions. I also have a number of Chinese friends, so I thought I'd tell you about the friends I've made and their lives. I won't use their real names, as I've no permission to discuss their lives.

    1. My friend Mxx.

    I met this girl, when another friend arranged for her to be a guide for me in his city. It was an arrangement made out of friendship and was not commercial.

    This attractive and mature young lady works in the office of my friend. She is studying acountancy part time (two nights a week) and hope to qualify as an accountant one day. Her grandfather was an accountant, so she feels there's a sort of family tradition. M lives with her boyfriend of two years, because she so often works back, he cooks the evening meal. They live in a small studio type apartment and a few months ago paid a deposit on a new (under construction) two bedroom apartment in a new part of the city with wide roads and lots of parkland. Her English is quite good, though she says it's difficult to practise, as there is not always the opportunity to meet English speakers. I'd judge she is very happy with being Chinese, but is also outward looking. ** We correspond (maybe an email every month or two).

    ** Most Chinese I've met are outward looking, interested in learning about life in other countries.

    ----------------------

    My friend, XHX.

    This is Mxx's boss. I met him in Australia, where he spent near 10 years studying. I helped him through a problem once, and he still shows his gratitude, whenever I visit. He also asked my advice on whether he should (then) attempt to permanently migrate, or to return to China. I told him, that it depended on his personal goals. If he stayed in Aust, he would be living in a mature economy with diminished opportunities. He could have a good life here, but he may have to put his mind to sleep. OTOH, if he felt he was up to the challenge, China had opportunities that Australia could not offer him. His home province has a population of100,000,000 people. His home city has a population of 15,000,000. Sydney has less than 5,000,000, New South Wales state around 7,500,000.

    He chose to return home to China and took over a small family business and turned it into a dynamo associated with the construction industry. (Mostly selling imported products). He was later invited to become a member of the city government and is often travelling the world as part of his city trade delegation. Next month he's off to Germany on city government business. He has a special interest in a new city development which is really huge, with wide roads and parks with many trees, and in the centre a huge lake has been constructed. He's rightly proud of his city and his role in its development

    I visited recently. He picked me up from a huge modern rail station. On the fast train, we'd travelled the 85 km in just 25 minutes. This time he was in a chauffeur driven, Mercedes S350. He explained, that nearly every night he's out at some official function (which involves drinking toasts) and his family took him to task about his safety - hence the decision to have a chauffeur.

    Here's some piks of the new city, where he lives and works.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    I'll come back to the lives of my friends, but will jump now to BOTR.s request for information on Jws in China.

    The answer, is that I don't have any specific detail.

    We all know they are attempting to establish an organisation there. But they cannot operate officially without being licensed by the State, and I doubt they'll do that. Why? As I understand it, because firstly, the church has to agree to give the State final approval on key leadership appointments. Second, the organisation must be native Chinese. Third, it must operate in harmony with State laws, and I'd see a conflict with the JW stand on military and blood transfusions.

    Many westerners feel those rules discriminate against freedom of belief. I think the Chinese response is likely to be, that an individual may believe what he wants to, but if he/they want to form an organisation, they they must register with the state.

    This is not a modern law. I've seen that as far back as the Tang dynasty, (early 7thC to early 10th C, CE) the State was requiring foreign religions to register with the State. Also the Chinese, in their 3000 year experience, have had some bitter experiences with religions, as lately as the 19th C and the Christian Taiping rebellion that nearly toppled the weakened Qing dynasty. And I've spoken elsewhere of the arrogant Christian attitude to the Chinese state in colonial times. So I do not have a problem with these rules.

    Lack of registration, means the JWs cannot build Kingdom halls, so whatever meetings are held will have to be on an underground level.

    How much freedom do Christians have? Does it vary in urban or rural areas?

    There's another thread in which I've posted images of Chinese churches. I'll never finish the thread. There are just too many churches to cover.

    In (early to late) modern times, the Catholic church has been the big missioniser up until the 19th C. Catholicism is well established along the coast, particularly in the south, where Dominican and Franciscan priests from the Philipinnes established churches. The Spanish administration in Manilla even planned an invasion of China in the 17th C, because they thought they could do what they did in Central and South America and conver the whole nation.

    So as long as a church sticks strictly to religion, there is not much restriction on Christian churches. And, I have not come across any difference in treatment between city and rural areas, but now I've started the thread, I'll look out for any thing tht throws light on that topic.

    Buddhism seems to thrive, lots of old temples have been re-built. Maybe I should post on that too.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Oops! I lost a couple of piks in the first post, so here they are again:

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Enough for today, except, may I recommend a book-

    Description

    This new book provides an accessible and wide-ranging introduction to the main features of Chinese society. Drawing on a wealth of material, the author offers a fresh understanding of a unique society that has undergone continuous transformation and upheaval throughout the twentieth century.

    Understanding Chinese Society looks in all its richness at the society with the largest population on earth. In order to explore long-term change and continuity, the book examines China from pre-revolutionary times to today's rapidly modernising society, although the focus is on recent change. Particular attention is paid to China's cultural traditions and hierarchical relationships in familial and wider social settings, and their fate in the modern world. Successive chapters investigate changes in the relations of rural and urban sectors of society; in the structure of families; in political and economic power; in cultural hegemony, education and the media; and in patterns of social inequality. A final chapter asks whether Chinese society is becoming more complex and differentiated in the course of modernisation and considers recent debates on the growth of civil society and democratisation.

    This book will be indispensable for anyone studying Chinese society, Asian societies and comparative sociology.

    Google books lets you get an idea of how Stockman approaches his perspective on China and the huge changes that the 20th C brought to the largest concentration of humans on the earth.

    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=zRooAAAAQBAJ&pg=PR4&lpg=PR4&dq=Dr.+Norman+Stockman&source=bl&ots=_mGaJxsaq1&sig=SSEV0AxJITv-VnvRccFm_jmixaA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DafaU7TGEpTk8AW

  • MissFit
    MissFit

    Very interesting. Thanks for starting this thread.

    I an looking forward to more of your posts n

    Miss.Fit

  • Listener
    Listener

    Thanks for the information Fulltimestudent. My hubby and I are visiting Hong Kong and Macau once again, in just over a weeks time. The Jw's seem to be fairly active in the streets of Hong Kong, unless it was just coincedence. I have seen them twice on previous visits.

    The last time I saw them on a street corner very close to the Chinese/Macau ferry terminal with their literatue trolley. Out of the three people manning the cart only one looked Chinese. I nearly stopped to pick up some literature just to see if they would warn me about not taking it into China but I doubt they would have and I think this was the exact reason why they had located themselves so close to the Ferry terminal.

    Macau has many old Christian churches and a beautiful old church ruin that is probably the number 1 attraction in Macau (besides the Casino's). The Portuguese people who migrated to Macau were responsible for establishing these Churches.

    We are running out of places to see in Macau and Hong Kong but we just love how different it is to our own country, Australia.

    Unfortunately, China still hasn't made it any easier to get Visa's so once again we have chosen not to travel there.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Fulltimestudent,

    I enjoyed reading about your experiences. Altho I've had a few very close Chinese-American friends, I have no desire to visit China. Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong might be exceptions. I love the Asian merchandise at Gumps, which is a San Francisco version of Tiffany's. The jade carvings are exquisite. Chinoiserie is attractive to me.

    We used to get free food in Chinatown to celebrate something Sun Yat Sen did.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Listener:

    Unfortunately, China still hasn't made it any easier to get Visa's so once again we have chosen not to travel there.

    Yes, there can be problems getting a visa, but there are some ways around the problems:

    If you check out the Chinese Embassy's web-site, you can download the application form and post it to the processing office. The consulates used to process the applications, but the Chinese government seems to out-sourced the processing to a private company, but in the end its much the same. In Sydney, the processing office is near the corner of Elizabeth and Liverpool street.

    The next difficulty is that they request a schedule showing where your staying, and confirmation of the bookings. If a travel agent is handling your trip arrangements that should not be a difficulty. But (if like me) you like to be free and able to change arrangements, its a bloody difficulty. However, if your not experienced in China travel, I think your better off with confirmed arrangments.

    Now that I have reasonable contacts, I can get around it by the alternative offered on the visa application form, that is a letter of invitation from a China resident.

    I think the China government wants to know this information in case of accidents or crimes. Imagine the problem in China of finding a body in an obscure back alley. First, there's a need to identify the body, particularly if the body is caucasian. Knowing who could be in the locality would be a help. I don't think that's likely to be a problem, though. as I feel safer in China than I would feel in say, Kings Cross in Sydney.

    And, btw - the procedure is much the same for Chinese visitors to Australia. They have to do similar things. This emphasises that much of the red tape is associated with reciprocal arrangements.

    Another thing that may interest you, is that the biggest cities including Gaungzhou may allow 72 hours of visa free stay.

    Here's what the Embassy web-page says:

    2) Transit in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Chengdu within 72 Hours

    Iirrespective of the passport type, citizens of the following 45 countries who transit in Beijing via Beijing Capital International Airport, Shanghai via Shanghai Hongqiao and Pudong International Airport, Guangzhou via Baiyun International Airport, Chengdu via Shuangliu International Airport, within 72 hours are exempted from visas for China:

    Austria, Australia, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Russia, Great Britain, Ireland, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, United States, Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Japan, Singapore, Brunei, United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

    For more information, please click here.

    So you could land in Gaungzhou ( I think), spend 3 days in GZ and then exit to HK. Talk to your travel agent.

    OR

    3) Foreigners to visiting the Pearl River Delta or Hainan Island

    A. A foreign citizen holding an ordinary passport issued by any country with diplomatic relations with China is exempted from a visa if he or she is already in Hong Kong or Macao and joins a tourist group organized by a travel agency, which is registered in Hong Kong or Macao, for a visit to the Pearl River Delta region (including Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Zhuhai, Foshan, Dongguan, Zhongshan, Jiangmen, Zhaoqing and Huizhou) and his or her stay is no more than 6 days.

    B. A foreign citizen holding an ordinary passport issued by any of the following countries is exempted from a visa if he or she joins a tourist group (of 5 or more persons) organized by an international travel agency registered in Hainan with the approval of China National Tourism Administration to visit Hainan Province and his or her stay is no more than 15 days: Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Republic of Korea, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, the U.K., Ukraine and the United States of America.

    Citizens of Germany, Republic of Korea and Russia may join an international tourist group (of 2 or more persons) and can stay up to 21 days.

    I interpret that to mean that you could, once you're in HK, join a tour arranged by a local Travel Agent, for a day or up to 6 days without a visa.

    You could see if you can do some one day tours, just to get a feel for travelling within the PRC. I'd love to to see the new Guangzhou tower (architectural interest for me).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIndvVTjGTQ

    But the local travel agents will be able to give you more details or where you could go.

    --------------------

    We are running out of places to see in Macau and Hong Kong but we just love how different it is to our own country, Australia.

    In any case, there are other places you can go. Try Taiwan, I think (your passport must be valid for more than 6 months) Aussies can stay in Taiwan without a visa for up to 30 days. Check to be sure.

    All of east Asia (Vietnam, N and S Korea and Japan) have similar cultures (with regional variations), because of the enormous influence exercised by Chinese culture.

    So try South Korea, (and its rather easy for Aussies to go to North Korea, albeit as part of a tour group) also.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    OK - back to the topic.

    I'm still looking at the lives of Chinese people that I know.

    Coming to Australia next week is Jnx, with his wife and daughter.

    Jnx did a masters degree at Sydney uni some years ago. While here he lived in the same suburb as I live in, we got talking at the bus stop one day and gradually became friends. He also liked Australia and because he had relatives here, tried to get a job in Aust. when he finished his studies, but failed, so returned to China. It took him 6 months to get a position ijn China, but he did- with a large telecom company. He's gradually risen up the ladder and today is (I guess) in middle management, and with an income that permits overseas travel once a year (last year, Australia, and the year before S.E.Asia). His wife also has a good job (secretary) in a large American company.

    The first time I went to China, they lived in a room in a sort of rooming house. It was quite dilapidated, but I guess it was cheap. Within 2 years they had saved enough money to buy an older two bedroom apartment with a small kitchen, bathroom and lounge. They had some sort of subsidy from the city government to help them buy. Both sets of parents came and helped to renovate it inside. After their daughter was born, one set of parents came to live permanently and look after their grand-daughter. That seems a common arrangement in China.

    I paint a picture of this guy, for two reasons. First, he's a member of the Communist Party of China and second, during his visit last year he wanted to visit Catholic churches, so I think he's converting to Catholicism. Once, the CPC was committed to atheism, but I believe that commitment to atheism is no longer a requirement for membership in the CPC.

    Maybe this coming visit will provide an opportunity to discuss it.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Listener:

    Thanks for the information Fulltimestudent. My hubby and I are visiting Hong Kong and Macau once again, in just over a weeks time. The Jw's seem to be fairly active in the streets of Hong Kong, unless it was just coincedence. I have seen them twice on previous visits.

    The last time I saw them on a street corner very close to the Chinese/Macau ferry terminal with their literatue trolley. Out of the three people manning the cart only one looked Chinese. I nearly stopped to pick up some literature just to see if they would warn me about not taking it into China but I doubt they would have and I think this was the exact reason why they had located themselves so close to the Ferry terminal.

    I decided to split my response to your post because it would be too long otherwise. Thnx for mentioning your observations about JWs in HK.

    I should have mentioned HK and Macau as separate to PRC, because the JWs have been free to work in both places for a long time. HK is supposed to have over 5000 publishers and over 60 congregations. I have little information otherwise. (the JWs really do not rate high on my interest screen these days -grin). I do know (gossip) that a missionary in HK came out as gay many years ago - not that means anything much.

    Macau has many old Christian churches and a beautiful old church ruin that is probably the number 1 attraction in Macau (besides the Casino's). The Portuguese people who migrated to Macau were responsible for establishing these Churches.

    I've posted elsewhere that another reason the Catholic church had a strong influence in south China because of the proximity to the Philipinnes. BS- (i.e. before the Spanish), the King of the Northern Phillipines had a vassal status with the Chinese Emperor, so there were close relationships between the Philipinnes and south China.

    I hope you both have a great trip, and really enjoy yourselves.

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