by Quendi 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
Their key date is 1919. That's when "they" were appointed.
Nothing to do with "truth". Those guys would be shown the door if they turned up today with their teachings (1874 Parousia, Pyramid-inches, and so on). It's only to do with unquestioned obedience, regardless of what the GB says.
Doug
PEOPLE WERE BLINDED BY SATAN SO AS NOT TO SEE THE EVENTS THAT UNFOLDED IN HEAVEN????
Would anybody care to say how invisible things can be seen? More witchtower shite...
HB
m
Qendi,
In that July 1914 topic of a few days earlier, I appreciated the discussion as well and had some ideas related to this one...
Sorry I've been remiss on this. A lot of business related things have come up which actually have been great fun but time consuming. Also, an earlier draft vanished into cyber space.
But what I wanted to say on that one is that there is an odd ring to the notion of "cause and effect" about 1914, Satan falling out of heaven and all that.
Doesn't it sound familiar to anyone's ears? Doesn't it seem like something one might have read ( or was supposed to have read) in English class?
We all have our tastes in literature, I am sure, especially those of us who like to do writing of our own. 17th century English literature is not my forte, however, but I am aware that it exists. And even went so far several decades ago to attempt to read John Milton's "Paradise Lost".
Paradise Lost - what is that all about?
Why, bless my soul, it is about Satan getting kicked out of heaven - A LONG TIME AGO!
So, what was he doing there on the even of World War I?
Why was his eviction anticipated?
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For some reason, Puritan poet John Milton decided to write a free verse 12-book poem addressing his theology and mirroring the conventions of Virgil's Aeneid or Dante's trilogy about the afterlife, a mixture of both. And it can be argued that Lucifer might have even been the hero of this story. Anti hero as some of the commentary or criticism suggests.
But is this in the Bible either? I leave that open to responses, but here is how I put together the picture.
The documentation for Satan as an adversary of God in the Old Testament or Hebrew Scriptures is very sparse. Even the name Lucifer is taken out of context in Isaiah. For readers and Jewish commentators of the TaNaKh, the serpent in the Garden is a serpent. In Job, ha satan is a courtier in the court of god who is a betting man and a vehicle for introducing the concept of suffering and evil befalling the decent in this life... Only in the later later books is there even suggestion that the gods and idols that are earlier dismissed as unreal or fake could actually be exiles from God's domain. And then in several Gospel accounts, there are not only devils behind nearly every tree, but Satan confronts Jesus in the desert claiming he owns the world. Now how is that for dualism!
I won't attempt to explain all this, save to say that times have changed for Judea. It is Paul, however, that speaks the most about events in the Garden. And as I review Romans, I believe that he speaks of Christ dying to reconcile us with God due to sin. Redemption - and especially the JW term of "Ransom" suggest a dualism and giving the devil his due. "It was through one man that sin came into the world" Rom 5:12. And although Paul frequently speaks of devils or satan tempting him or others in their day to day work, he makes very little of the role of the devil in the garden.
Question for readers: Does Paul ever mention Job?
Hebrews is an outlier for Paul - and many doubt that he was the actual author. The other epistles make it quite clear who is talking. Anyway, shifting back and forth from concerns about priesthood and the state of mind of the angels confronted with the notion that God was going to send to human kind a savior... There is a suggestion in Hebrews 1 that this occurred early on. "To which of the angels, then, has God ever said You are my Son, today I have fathered you."
So if nothing else, from this I would surmise ( are you listening JWs?) that Jesus is distinct from the archangel Michael. But perhaps someone else can locate or infer that angels were jealous of an announcement that Jesus would offer redemption to mankind. Maybe Milton did.
Next on my list is Jude. Now check this out (5-7): I should like to remind you that the Lord resuced the nation from Egypt, but afterwards he still destroyed the people who refused to believe him; and the angels who did not keep to the authority they had, but left their appointed sphere, he has kept in darkness in eternal bonds until the Judgment Day..."
And then:
"Not even the archangel Michael when he was engaged in argument with the devil about the corpse of Moses dared to denounce him in the language of abuse..." (9)
Now how is it that the angels who have fallen are bound up but also trying to carry off the corpse of Moses? Hard to follow,but I think stages are being set from documents which are not considered canonical.
"It was with them in mind that Enoch, the 7th patriarch from Adam, made his prophecy when he said, 'I tell you, the Lord will come with his holy ones ( angels) in their tens of thousands to pronounce judgment on all humanity and to sentence the godless...
And that's where we get an account of the war amongst the angels in times distant.
But it's not in the Bible.
And it probably was very difficult, if not impossible, for John Milton to obtain in 17th century England, considering that late in life he was blind.
... And now we are expected to believe that WWI was caused by the same mechanism which would fare terribly in a patent office review.
Interesting thoughts, kepler. I am reexamining my faith in the scriptures we have as apparently are you. The fundamentalist approach JWs embrace has proved itself inadequate to address the inconsistencies it has created let alone the deeper questions many of us have. There aren't many Witnesses who are interested in really investigating Witness theology. The vast majority are content to read WTS publications and accept without question their findings. They also have no idea of how different ideas have fared as the years have rolled along, being content to accept so-called "new light" for any adjustments made in understanding or embracing a simplistic belief that the Governing Body knows best. So the exact dates of when the Gentile Times ended, the war in heaven began or Satan's being cast out of heaven are unimportant to them. All that matters is that they did take place--the details aren't worth losing faith in the cult's leadership.
Quendi
Oh, I see it so clearly now:
Satan blinded people with the outbreak of the Great War in AUGUST 1914 so they wouldn't see the invisible events that were about to take place in OCTOBER 1914 not on earth but far above the stratosphere in the heavenly realm.
You can see why it is absolutely essential to permanently park any remaining active brain cells in order to embrace this religious twaddle.
so: if satan would not have blinded them, they would have seen it?
if they were invisible anyway, why had there be to be a blinding?
Because all this stuff is made up anyway, from the talking snake on, is it not wise not to be unduely bothered by the details?
batsinthebelfry, thank you for the bible link.
"about" 1914. the YEAR it used to be "about" october. MONTH.
The uncertainty is showing. a twelve - fold reduction in accuracy.
