Hi Imbue: I enjoyed Jan’s material. I have some comments regarding some points he made:
”I no longer post on JWD for a number of reasons, and I read far from all of the messages posted there, and I find it easier to see what is really going on in the role of observer.”I doubt that very many have ever kept up with the large number of posts. This is likely what causes many of the misunderstandings that arise, because if we join in on a heated exchange, it is likely after several threads have preceded it, and the lack of history may easily skew one’s interpretation of events ... I have witnessed this and been the butt of it a few times.
”The online xJW community is growing increasingly intolerant not only to JWs with genuine doubts, but also to anyone expressing views contrary to the "mainstream." There is a very angry crowd there, for obviously and understandable reasons, who will accept no dissent regarding their core dogma: that the WTS is responsible for all ills and problems in life.”I don’t see this as anything new. What is new is that the ratio of individuals who try hard to help keep balance is shrinking ... and getting attacked personally, driving them away.
”It was a time when attacks on the WTS could be reasonably criticized on fact and logic without the critic being labeled pro-JW. That seems to no longer be the case. A part of the reason is no doubt that anyone who does not conform to the mob is harassed to the degree they realize they have to find another forum for serious discussion.”Those times must have been many years ago. When I joined H20 years ago, I made some comments and asked questions about evolution, and instead of objective responses, I was told that I did not even have the right to ask questions until I was educated on the topic of evolution. I felt that such remarks were born of shear arrogance, elitism, and egotism.
”For example, I have found the criticism of the WTS Trinity brochure to be often ill-founded and unfair. Many does not seem to understand what is a misquotation and what is not. Surely, I believe the brochure is far from giving a correct picture of the development of Christology in the early Christian church, but the same can be argued about its opponents. Anyone expecting a objective treatment of this subject from the WTS is grossly unreasonable, and as an example of WTS atrocities or failings, this brochure doesn't even make the top thousand.”I commented on the recent thread about this, but took no stand, other than to mention Robert Finnerty’s work in how he exposed the Society’s misuse of quotes of the early Church Father’s and their heavy reliance on Lampson’s work, which is questionable. As for the Trinity doctrine itself, there are good arguments on both sides. I am neutral toward the doctrine.
”Also, a number of bogus arguments are repeatedly posted. Earlier, more knowledgable people rebutted or at least questioned these arguments. Even the totally bogus "russell was a freemason" argument seems to go unanswered these days.”Agreed. I use to comment with debate when these conspiracy theories were posted, but now when I see them, my eyes glaze over, and I generally avoid these types of posts.
”Perhaps the most common bad argument is accusing JWs of having "conditional love". I will argue that all love is conditional. I doubt many would continue to love a person abusing them in the worst possible way. The WT problem is not that love is conditional, but that it is conditional on factors totally external to the relationship. JWs love on the condition that the other remain a member of the sect. Of course, by now the argument no longer fits into a catchy slogan, which is probably the reason the misconstrued phrase keeps being repeated.”Generally I agree. I also think that with the greater volume of new ex-JWs, that we are witnessing more who are going through a grieving period, and for those of us who have healed for the most part, this may appear differently to us today than it did when we first left the religion. I recall some years ago the Society published in the Watchtower that only JWs had ‘true’ Christian godly love, whereas ‘worldly’ people only had ‘limited’ love. The friends I made in the Watchtower, I still consider friends, and if they left the religion I would be there for them ... and I am sure that their love and friendship would be as always. Yet, because the ‘organization’ stands in the way of a complete and fulfilling friendship, the limits of such friendship are conditional, more so than they would have been were those friendships made outside the religion.
”I have also, frankly, had some mixed feelings on making the child abuse cases the primary focus of the attack on the WTS. As it is now, it will probably be the worst crisis ever hitting the WTS, and given the criminal neglect of the organization I have no tears for them. Even more important, this exposure will probably do much good in saving other children from abuse and empowering existing victims to take back their lives. Also, some of my initial fears have largely been answered by the excellent way the people in what i will call "the silentlambs network" have conducted the project. They seem to have avoided the countless pitfalls such an emotional subject brings up. The bogus or doubtful allegations that always surfaces in such cases have received a calm, critical evaluation. That this project has succeeded so far is, ironically, because it has been run as an "elite" operation (oh how they hate that expression!) largely hidden from all interested parties, including both the WTS and the 'mob'.”SilentLambs and those of us who have been involved at times in the middle, and now for me mostly on the periphery, it has been handled generally well. There are a lot of abuse victims, and many who express strong feelings may be releasing anger and hurt that had no other outlet before ... and now they have a mechanism to speak out ... and in time this will subside.
”This is about to change as the Dateline exposure hits the airwaves (hopefully next week). It will go mainstream, and this deeply emotional subject will take all the classical characteristics of a media feeding frenzy. I have been deeply disturbed by the extreme attacks on the eminent sociologist Rodney Stark I have read on JWD. Some have openly suggested trying to smear him by arguing that any positive sentence about the WTS -- which was quotable when the compulsory brakets and ellipsis was employed -- means that he somehow supports child abuse. I don't doubt that he has already received hate mail from some mob members. If Stark or other scholars fails to see the real, ugly truth behind the window-dressing in the Watchtower, it can at least be partially blamed on the hysterical mob.”I don’t recall much of Stark, so I will have to go back and see what he said. But sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor ... and maybe those who would try and debate this issue need to wait until some of the heat cools a little.
”Finally, a word on "trolls". H2O in the past, and JWD now (and probably WOF in the future), is of course very vulnerable to real "trolls". The word troll originally refers to someone posting a provocative message on a public forum just to hook people into angry retorts, when they themselves do not mean what they say. This last part seems to have escaped the attention of many board members who repeatly yells "troll." It has become the catch-all insult to everyone who posts opinions they do not like. The hyper-sensitivity to "trolls" is IMO a much greater threat to free exchange of ideas than the genuine trolls.”It seems to me that ‘Trolls’ on ex-JW forums evolved into those JWs who post with no other purpose than to heckle ex-JWs. But I agree that at times, the label ‘Troll’ has been used in an attempt to discredit those who hold a minority view.
All that said, I find that there is a certain double standard at times. When some old-guard ‘elite’ became so full of themselves they started doing much of the above to others ... and when some got sick of having bovine excrement dumped on them, they started dishing it back as it came to them ... and for this the ‘old-guard’ elite couldn’t handle it, and started acting as if they were being persecuted, as though they never said anything negative and hurtful or in ‘ad hominem’ style made absurd arguments. This became all too obvious in a situation I got into the middle of sometime ago, and is something I hope never to get into again.
Thank Jan H for the insightful essay, and let him know that we miss his comments here on JWD.