Colossians 1:15-16 and the word "other" (page 3)

ablebodiedman

How do you feel the discussion ending with 1 Corinthians 15:27 plays with this argument from the evangelical perspective?

It supports the use of "other" inserted into 15-16

I'm thinking you get it!

abe

ablebodiedman

Isaiah 44:24-25

　This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: "I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth.

This is the scripture which proves that Jesus Christ is not God.

Trinitarians however, use it to prove that he is.

Kind of frustrating, don't you think?

abe

DATA-DOG

The WTBTS lies about all kinds of things. They add YHWH where it should be LORD all over the place!! Why wouldn't they add "other" they have no shame. The word "other" simply does not belong.

Let's Review: IT'S A CULT!

DD

First born of all creation does not say first created of all created. Jesus was YHWAH begotten son. Not too sure I want to explain that one but the WORD and YHWH had a unique relationship, "Let us create." I doubt YHWH was talking with his angels. Two God's having a great time creating with their angels.

Anyhow, I keep it simple Jesus was the Word in the beginning prior to creation.The Word was in Eternity with YHWH. Eternity is a topic the WT seems to neglect it was before star,sun,and moon that make up 24 hours in a day.

I believe Jesus is God but not the Heavenly Father God. If YHWH can call Jesus God who am I to argue with him or her!

Yogasana thank you for sharing your research!

sarahsmile

ARoq stated,"he reason why a "lessor god" theory is important is because God is one, and if you add a "lessor god" who is also worshiped, then you have polytheism. Polytheism is against God's word. Worship has and is being given to Jesus, if He is not God then you have a problem."

That is right all power and authority was given to Jesus by his Father God.

Hebrews 1:4 God calls Jesus God.

That makes two.

John 1:1 there are two The Word was with God.

Anyhow, you make polytheism against Gods word but YHWH does not.

Jesus is not Almighty God but would be called mighty God.

yadda yadda 2

More trinitarian gibberish that just proves the Bible is gibberish.

Jesus is God and Jesus died but God cannot die and Jesus is our mediator but Jesus is God so Jesus was a mediator of himself.

Pterist

Romans 1:20

God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made.

dna rna translation...once was invisible .....the bible seems to talk in terms of creation as the process of FROM a source THROUGH a copy of source ...which is the process how proteins are made from a source code DNA through messenger RNA and its interactions....just a though on how God as a source could fulfill and reconcile all things onto HIMSELF in his own divine code (copy) in action.

Just sayin ;)

raymond frantz

Sorry I got late on this one ,answering the original post ,a have a couple of querstions :

1. You say there is another word for first born in Greek which Paul didn't use here .Which one is this word

2. You connect the verses in Collosians witht the verses in Psalms when two different languages are used there ,one Greek and one Hebrew .Do you mean the Hebrews meant the same thing when the Greek's refered to a "first-born"?

By the way the Greek word used there is prōtotokos(=πρωτότοκος) the common Greek word for first born

5 3739 [e]
15 hos
15 ὅς
15 who
15 RelPro-NMS

1510 [e]
estin
ἐστιν
is
V-PIA-3S

1504 [e]
eikōn
εἰκὼν
[the] image
N-NFS

3956 [e]
pasēs
πάσης
of all
Adj-GFS

4416 [e]
prōtotokos
πρωτότοκος
[the] firstborn
Adj-NMS

2937 [e]
ktiseōs
κτίσεως ;
creation
N-GFS

Aroq

"You could have easily drawn on Bible only examples of times when God granted humans and angels his powers to do many things ie Resurrections, miracle cures, controlling weather etc."

designs, you have answered your own question with an answer you wanted to hear.

"Aroq- Can you see that people making Jesus into God was superfluous just by the Bible's examples alone."

People do not make Jesus who He is. Think about this for a moment. Who is Jesus to add to YHWH's commandments? Is this not superseeding YHWH?

examples:

John 13:34 " 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "

Matthew 5: 21 “You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘ You shall not commit murder ’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

designs

Aroq- the answer to my question that you can't stop dodging is God in the OT and NT had regular humans do miraculous things including resurrections. They didn't have to be even divine or God just given the power.

You realize that Jesus of the gospels and then Paul's writings are different. Jewish believers in Jesus, Ebionites and the nazarenes, did not believe in Jesus as God, that was against the jewish belief in who and what the Messiah is. Paul was considered a heretic by thes Jewish Messianic believers.

You do realize that those two passages, John and Matthew, were really Jewish ideas, taught in Jewish schools, and preceeding the time of Jesus by centuries.

Colossians 1:15-16 and the word "other"

Share this