Defender of truth to Dagney: ..........just hoping you might expand on why you think that.
Dagney: It's evil to allow suffering when it can be prevented. It's plain ol' evil.
I think she was pretty clear.
Is God evil, just because he fails to prevent suffering?
by defender of truth 40 Replies latest watchtower bible
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yadda yadda 2
Well if by 'God' you mean the traditional Biblical 'God', then by his own word the Bible he is self-condemned as sinful, since James 4:17 makes it very clear that if you know how to do something good but don't do it, you have sinned.
And if God is our 'heavenly father' as the new testament asserts, what sort of father is 'indifferent' to his children's suffering, agony, dying?
Even Jesus at Matthew 7:11 said that an 'evil' father still gives good things to his children, yet we find that our so-called 'heavenly father' Biblical God is totally aloof and indifferent and gives nothing to stop the horrendous suffering and deaths of so many, especially the morally innocent such as little children.
So such an 'indifferent' New Testament heavenly 'father' must be morally worse than an ordinary human 'father'.
Thus, whatever this 'God' is that might exist, it obviously has no sense of normal morality that we can even remotely comprehend or relate to.
Therefore, such a 'God' is not worthy of our attention, it is irrelevant.
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defender of truth
OntheWayOut: Really? The key word there was 'why', why she thought that.
So, if someone simply posted in this thread: 'God is not evil for allowing suffering which could be prevented', would you not ask them 'why?' ?.
If you would feel the need to ask that, I would hope that you would apply the same standard to something you already agree with. For the record, I agree with Dagney, and ADCMS gave an excellent example on another thread of why it seems evil for God to be indifferent. I won't be replying to this thread again, lets see what others have to say. -
defender of truth
Here it is:
AndDontCallMeShirleyposted ~ 16 hours ago(8/12/2014)
Post 3161 of 3167
"If a lifeguard, or worse, a parent, stood by and 'indifferently' watched a child drown just a few feet away, when both the lifeguard or parent could easily save their life, that wouldn't be considered evil because they were not "deliberately" pushing the child down into the water?"
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/282559/4/Atheists-and-JWs-are-on-the-same-footing#.U-she12t-o8 -
Dagney
It okay defender. Actually, I would wager my thinking is more expanded than yours...perhaps.
I originally had thoughts on the word you choose...evil, but I was at work and didn't have time to put my thoughts together.
My feeling is if god's ultimate reward/destination for man is no suffering...then allowing suffering is cruel and without love. I'm talking Job and disaster/plague cruel type suffering.
The natural feeling for a loving, feeling person is to protect and care for one another. You may feel god does that. Others may disagree.
In the end it really doesn't matter. If your faith serves you well, than good. It doesn't mean what you have faith in is true. I've been there, and I have the tee shirt. But it doesn't make it true and real.
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KateWild
Like many on this thread have already said it depends how we view God. Some atheists have expressed that if God were supposed to be omnipitent and benevolent, then his indifference is evil. But atheists in general don't even believe in God, so why philosophise about the type of God?
Personally I view God as a creator and just that. I don't see him as omnipitent or benevolent, so his indifference is no surprise to me. I credit him for a lot of beauty and pleasure in the world, but do not credit him for natural disasters or the evil of others, I am also loathed to blame Satan for all bad things. That was my JW line, and I don't like that excuse, it's just not satisfying.
I just don't think God has control over these things, or cares enough to make a difference. The fact that I believe he is there, has no bearing on my thoughts on suffering in this world. I think it's all seperate.
Kate xx
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Zoos
Whether or not it is evil to sit on your hands taking notes while humanity suffers... I don't know. But my awakening from this cult has shown me how utterly disconnected God is from humans, how the direction of holy spirit is whatever our imaginings tell us it is.
I still believe there is a God up there but I have no desire to draw close to Him. I'm not even sure I want Him drawing close to me. I find his methods distasteful. And if our opinion of Him was as almighty important as some suggest...
SecondRateMind: ...given the premium He seems to place on our freedom to accept Him, or not, and love Him, or not.
...then it is incumbent on HIM to cast Himself better.
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Fernando
The majority of us humans are indifferent to God's ultimate blueprint and generous solution for all evil, namely his liberating, composite, integrative, and transformative gospel message hidden in plain sight throughout scripture.
Yet many of us humans have instead gladly devoted thousands of hours to the common enemy of God and man, namely religion (which drives toxic radicalism, clericalism, hypocrisy, and ignorance; all fuelled by apostate legalism, moralism, and ethnocentrism).
Proof?
Just ask any Christian to explain what the gospel is in one word.
Just ask any Jew to explain what bissar is in one word.
Just ask any Muslim to explain what the injeel/injil is in one word.
The answer is as deafening as it is unanimous: ignorance.
Irony?
Christians, Jews and Muslims have at least 15 prophets in common that they esteem. Yet nothing was more important to these prophets than the gospel/bissar/injeel/injil.
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LouBelle
For me , a mere human, if I can help someone, prevent their suffering, aid them I do. How more so should a god?
I don't believe in god anyway sooooooo....
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defender of truth
Dagney, I am actually an atheist myself. KateWild just made the interesting comment in the OP, and I thought it would be a basis for thought provoking discussion between both sides.
Maybe it still can be.
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FERNANDO, are you saying that God allows evil because people have not put into practice the words in the Gospels? Surely He could still step in and cure a dog that is dying painfully from cancer, for example? The dog cannot even read the Gospels.
The suffering that God allows includes all living creatures, not just humans.