Hello, semi long intro!

by Moses Joe 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • Moses Joe
    Moses Joe

    I was raised as a Jehovahs Witness. Currently I still am part of a congregation, which I gather is also the case for many who come here. I no longer consider them God's chosen people. Nor do I consider any modern day religion to be favored by God because none actually apply the commandment of Christ. Love was paramount, on love, "the whole law rests, and the prophets." In 1 Corinthians 13, after describing love, Paul said, "For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known." He goes on to write that for now three things remain, faith, hope, and love.

    The Bible was written to tell us what sort of people to be, what to expect, what to watch for; but, not when it would happen. We are not to be anxious over tomorrow, worrying about even when armeggeddon happens, rather live in the day and by the law of love with faith in a better future and hope that you'll see it. That was enough for Paul, who's own words indicate that he knew they could not know what was to happen. So why then does the Governing Body insist on pinpointing future events? Why do they concern themselves over little things like what the third heavens are, or who the king of the north and south are, or who babylon the great is or who the beast is...? The heart of the matter is love and the good knews of a happy future which was indeed commanded to be preached - yet that is not what they preach. If the Bible itself says, and it does, that the time of prophets is no more - why are you trying to BE a prophet?

    The governing body allows the idea that they are led by god and thus cannot be wrong, yet the bible says that no man is perfect and whenever a prophet made a mistake he admitted to it - something proven by the fact that they wrote it in their books. This example is not followed. The fact is that when they meet together each week, they are all wanting something and they are all looking for scriptures to support their own aims for the whole organization. Equally they look for ways to shut each other down, and all with a mask of civility I'm sure. It's like looking up at the night sky, when you do you see stars. The only time you see constellations is when you WANT to - thus, the governing body only sees gods backing when they want to find it hard enough. They are no different from any other imperfect man, no different then King Saul, who when he wanted permission to do something he knew wouldn't be approved sought a spirit medium to make an apparition tell him what he wanted to hear.

    Being raised a witness harmed and closed my mind. I no longer know if God is a must-be, because now I think outside that and consider that if matter can neither be created or destroyed then matter has always been - a quality also attributed to God. If two lifeless rocks can collide and spark energy via a flame or explosion, who is to say the same event couldn't bring about life? After all, a fire is hungry/thirsty, has a will, moves, breathes, and yet can come from absolutely nothing completely by chance application of oustide chaotic forces. Why should it be impossible to imagine that life, like that fire, cannot result from the same?

    My mind, not being in prison anymore, I whole heartedly believe is in thanks to James Marlowe. At least I believe his first name was James. Whether he intended it or not he caused me to start thinking outside the box and apply my mind to actual reasoning instead of confined, controlled thought. When this was accomplished I started doing my own study of the Bible with all the right tools and I found that yes, there is no hell, no soul, the earth will abide forever, all creation reconciled to perfection, a small group going to heaven and a much larger group on earth, it is indeed fact that the bible doesn't support the trinity doctrine - yet all this being true is not a credential for this organization, it is rather the blanket for the lies underneath that you can never see unless you physically go dig for them; which, you cannot do. Yet, despite this impossibility, enough proof exists. "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks", and then there's the scripture about what fruit is borne by men will show you their true self. Examine what they say, and what comes of what they say and do and that will prove it.

    They are more concerned with numbers then people, whether it's the number of hours or the number of people. The biggest part of the yearbook is never the experiences, but the report - numbers. They don't care if you can't find a job, as long as you're at the meetings. They don't care if you live in poverty, as long as you pioneer. All the while saying, "we aren't saying you have to live in poverty or harm your lives," but then with the other hand saying, "there's no excuse for not making room for pioneering", "There's no excuse for not getting baptised." They dangle the good things in front of you but collar you with guilt and fear and this is not something which christ would approve. From the gospels we see that even the desciples themselves doubted Jesus, even after all of his miracles, because the scribes taught - accurately - that the bible said elijah must come first. Yet did he scold them? Did he disfellowship them? No. Try doubting the Governing Body and see what happens.

    I apologize for the long post, but I've had all this and more built up for a long time and nowhere to vent it all. This is only a small fraction, very small, of all the discrepencies that exist scripturally between Christs example and their own. I am forcing myself to stop typing, because I know long posts are annoying and often go ignored.

  • LogCon
    LogCon

    Welcome Moses Joe

    good point;

    From the gospels we see that even the desciples themselves doubted Jesus, even after all of his miracles, because the scribes taught - accurately - that the bible said elijah must come first. Yet did he scold them? Did he disfellowship them? No. Try doubting the Governing Body and see what happens.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Welcome, Moses Joe.

  • millie210
    millie210

    Welcome!

    Your post was neither long nor boring.

    It was quite compelling actually.

    Thank you for taking the time to write it.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Welcome. I've found that leaving the org. is embarking on a long learning process. For instance, you wrote:

    When this was accomplished I started doing my own study of the Bible with all the right tools and I found that yes, there is no hell, no soul, the earth will abide forever, all creation reconciled to perfection, a small group going to heaven and a much larger group on earth, it is indeed fact that the bible doesn't support the trinity doctrine - yet all this being true is not a credential for this organization

    All JWs tend to start from this base even when they begin thinking for themselves, because we've been conditioned for years to prefer these beliefs. I notice you said "the right tools", but what tools are right for reading the Bible? What if I suggested to you that there are multiple beliefs in an afterlife depicted in the Bible, some proof for hellfire, proof for a binity of God/Jesus (though not a trinity), and that the scriptures about a future paradise earth were being written by Jews, for Jews, about the land they lived in?

    I also think you'll come to realize in time that the first Christians only expected to go to heaven, and there was no hidden second group coming down the pike later on, waiting to be revealed by Rutherford in the 1930s AD. Jesus only had two groups, the little flock (the Jews) and the other sheep (the much more numerous Gentiles). See http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/when-jesus-talks-about-other-sheep-is-he-referring-to-the-mormons and pretend as you read it that "Mormons" says "anointed JWs".

    Anyway, this isn't the right place for a Bible debate, but I'm just encouraging you to question all your assumptions, and feel free to start a thread to talk about any of these things. Speaking for myself, I haven't found a single thing that I was taught as a JW that holds up under scrutiny.

  • DwainBowman
    DwainBowman

    I enjoyed reading your post!

    Dwain

  • jam
    jam

    Good read, Moses. I hope you can help

    others in your congregation to the promise land, (truth)..

  • Moses Joe
    Moses Joe

    The tools I used were a strongs concordance, several versions of the bible (none of which was a nwt), and an interlinear. I then looked for consistency and frequency in occurence of word use and idea presented in the scriptures.

    example. being the firstborn of all creation. When translated would literally mean, first born of that which came from nothing. Another words, jesus was created. End of the trinity. There are many more scriptures like this. There is one that says, "For in him dwelleth the fullness of the godhead bodily." However, contrary to the first glance notion suggested, the very definition of the greek word used for full disallows for any idea that he and god are one and the same. The same word is used regarding the baskets they use to take up fragments after the miracle where christ fed thousands. Essentially the word means to be full completely, or to be filled but it also carries with it the idea that what is doing the filling is not being held within itself. To suggest this scripture supports the trinity would be akin to setting a glass in the sink, and running water in it until the glass itself not only turns into water but also stands upright as it always would. So no, no trinity.

    But I also don't care. It was the good news of the kingdom that was to be preached, good news that eventually god will take over again. Christ didn't say anything about making sure to scwabble over this sort of information. I doubt that those saying "Lord, lord.." will get a favorable response if they were too busy correcting each other to love their neighbor.

  • Iown Mylife
    Iown Mylife

    Welcome to a great forum, Moses Joe! I enjoyed your post. My family and I are totally out of the WT cult after about 30 years. It takes time to heal and de-program from the cult mind control. This forum helps with that.

    Best wishes to you!

    Marina

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Welcome Mose Joe, very compelling introduction.

    Wasn't the biggest problem the WTS ever had was that it was a religious publishing house operating at its core, so doctrines were constructed around that focused operation.

    ........uuuummmmm ???

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