I doubt that atheists as a whole actually care what other people believe in, until that is, you look at all the evil done in religioms name and then find yourself accused either of being less moral or less decent etc than those who choose to believe in a deity .
HOW TO AVOID THE A-HOLE SPIRIT OF SOME HERE...
by DATA-DOG 152 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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FlyingHighNow
I'm posting what I said--again-- because of the cherry picking that has gone on with it. Read the whole quote instead of lifting out part of it, so as to misrepresent what I have said.
In my view, atheism isn't a problem. The only time I have any issue with atheists is when they try to pressure others to be atheists. We all walk a different journey. We have to make our own minds up. Living peacefully together, working together, is paramount. I have more problems with dangerous things done in the name of religion, than I do with atheism. When either atheists or religionists step on each others' backs, it's a problem. I'd rather see unethical or dangerous things addressed individually, than to see blanket condemnation of either religion or science. I'd also like to see the myths about both discovered and understood accurately.
I like how you skipped right over the pink highlight there. I have much bigger issues with dangerous things done in the name of religion than I have with atheism.
Do athiests at times pressure others to be atheists? Yes they do. It's kind of like Christian evangelizing, only it's atheists doing the evangelizing. I don't like to see either religionists or atheists stuffing their views down everyone's throats.
I don't see atheism as a problem. Whatever you believe or don't believe is not a problem. To each his own. I'm a universalist.
As long as you're not badgering agnostics, deists and theists, beating them over the head with your atheism, there's no issue with you. It's interesting to hear you talking about your views, just as long as you're not trying to pressure everyone to adopt those views. And if you think you don't do it, there are many, many threads on JWN in which you do it.
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Viviane
FHN, you neither answered my question nor provided a specific example. All you managed was an attempt at a lecture. I would suggest, as a rational person, that if you don't like reading others views, perhaps a discussion board where others post their views may not be the place for one such as yourself, one who likes to, without a shred of self-realization or irony, louldy and frequently complain about people loudly proclaiming their views.
Physician, heal thyself.
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Phizzy
Stating your view on a discussion board such as this, whether one is a believer or not, can hardly be "stuffing their views down everyone's throats".
What I have observed in the past, I cannot say recently, is some believers attaching threats to their stated views about us non-believers "reaping the whirlwind" at some future point.
I don't think I have ever seen a non-theist attach any kind of threat, maybe a mild suggestion that the person would be better employed studying facts and evidence, but that is all.
I don't think you dear Hat Lady can really show instances of non-believers "beating over the head" the believers.
Both parties are free to restate their views as often as they like, silly beliefs will no doubt be ridiculed, but if you are going to hold silly, unprovable beliefs, which I equate to delusion, then expect derision, ridicule, lampooning etc for those beliefs, any "attack" is on those beliefs, not the person.
I would suggest, if anyone is so unsure that they cannot take their beliefs being held up to the spotlight, they keep them to themselves.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
I would suggest, if anyone is so unsure that they cannot take their beliefs being held up to the spotlight, they keep them to themselves.
Boil it all down and that is the core issue.
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MadGiant
Both parties are free to restate their views as often as they like, silly beliefs will no doubt be ridiculed, but if you are going to hold silly, unprovable beliefs, which I equate to delusion, then expect derision, ridicule, lampooning etc for those beliefs, any "attack" is on those beliefs, not the person.
I would suggest, if anyone is so unsure that they cannot take their beliefs being held up to the spotlight, they keep them to themselves.
Yes and Yes.
Ismael
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cofty
As long as you're not badgering agnostics, deists and theists, beating them over the head with your atheism... - FHN
Atheism isn't a thing. There is no alternative set of beliefs on offer for ex-theists.
All you can do is hold superstitious religious beliefs up to scrutiny. Things that are true will thrive, nonsense will be exposed. What is left is a universe full of awesome reality.
It's a public service that some of us provide for free.
You are welcome.
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DJS
Phizzy and ADCMS,
Yes and yes. Several years ago when I was completing my undergraduate degree, one of my profs - in a relgious course I was taking - made the following statement: "The only place belief in god is in short supply is in a seminary." He had a PhD in divinity, served at several churches in various capacities and was essentially an atheist.
He was using hyperbole to illustrate what I have been saying for a while. Seminary students, one would think, would be most inclined to believe in god. However, they may enter seminary as strong feelers/believers with some (one sided) knowledge about the topic, but after many years of studying and researching all sides of the topic, many of the students end up just like many of the atheists on this site.
That's what I continue to try to get across to theists, but without much success. Once someone is entrenched based on feelings and beliefs, which are the two lowest rungs on our evolutionary scale, there isn't much that can change that. Most if not all of the arguments revolve around this very simple matter. A lot of theists firmly plant their feet, fist their hands and become even more entenched. And when they can't win any arguments - and they never will -because faith/belief cannot be proven and the primary source is the bible (I mean, really?), they resort to calling us arrogant and mean.
This is the primary reason why almost every OP on this site fairly quickly separates itself into the theist/non-theist camps, even when the topic is secular, social in nature. It's the process by which theists 'make up their minds' that is the main problem.
I will most certainly believe in god whenever she clearly presents herself. As Dubs we prided ourselves in our study and 'knowledge.' Until many of us discovered it was based on a faulty premise/source, the 'knowledge' was completey one sided and shallow, and it was supported by a 'spin' machine of historic proportions - the WTB&TS.
Feellings and beliefs are fine. Lack of self control in locating the keyboard isn't. It will result in the ready deconstruction of the argument, and as Phiz states, they should expect " . . .derision, ridicule and lampooning. . " All of that could be fixed by avoiding the keyboard.
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DJS
Lawyers are all money grabbing, ambulance chasing, charlatans. So BOTR, if every few weeks someone came on this site and spewed this nonsense, I think you would have more than a little bit to say about it. And yet you think the theists who spew such nonsense about how atheists are war mongering, baby killing whores is not starting something??????? I have never started a war or killed any babies!! (2 out of 3 aint bad).
I would stand up for lawyers if such nonsense was spewed. I would stand up for theists if such nonsense was spewed. I do not see you or any other of the theists standing up for atheists when such nonsense is typed into the keyboards of dumbass theists (don't hate me because I'm right Paris). ANYONE making definitive statements which are completely wrong is a dumbass, including atheists.
The data we present is very good empirical data. Attacking those presenting it is childish, churlish, immature and tells all the lurkers you have no case. Deconstruct the data or hush. It's really that simple. There is likely no significant difference between the average theist and the average atheist in intelligence, etc., but the data suggests over a large population there are certain differences. Take it up with those conducting the research, but attacking me because I used to be an elder, which has absolutely nothing to do with this, or that you think (Paris) that I have to always be right (when all I am doing is defending myself) (BOTR) is so tepidly weak and childish that I really don't have to respond.
And BOTR, like you I wish the back and forth silliness would stop. Most of my friends are theists. I love them. I would die for most of them. They are smart, bright, caring, decent people. But so are my athiest friends. There. I'm through with this topic. For now anyway.
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objectivetruth
This Thread should get its own website.