Conversation with 4 elders: A study in smear tactics.

by problemaddict 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Bucket shop Bill has a thread in which they are "counseled" for something, that ends up not even being true. Instead of the elder who made the accusation apologizing to them, they are made to feel like they should appreciate his overexuberence.

    It struck me that this is a common tactic. Here is a story of my own. First real personal one I think I have told.

    While I was serving the congregation, but my days were numbered, I had spoken to some key elders about some things in hindsight I should not have. I was more idealistic then (almost 2 years ago). They gave a talk that at the time I didn't realize was basically a "marking" talk where they do nto mention the persons name.

    It was quite clearly specific towards me. Most of the hall didn't know it. Some did. I called the elder with whom i was still serving and said "What the hell was that!?"

    His word for word response....

    "Well brother, is there anythig from the platform that you felt was not a good reminder for all sevant of the living God Jehovah?"

    I chuckled, and would not be baited.

    Once I was removed and my spiritual de-pantsing was complete, i was asked later to appear before 5 elders from three congregations. I refused but eventually because of a friend convincing me it was the only way they would leave me alone, I agreed. They asked me to "keep silent until the end", and proceeded to cousel me about three things.

    1) They spoke about "respecting Lordship" (not kidding), by listening to the elders.

    2) Not debating the NWT online (huh?)

    3) I don't even remember.

    Number 2 was interesting. Not only have I never done such a thing, but the cousel to avoid it was giving the impression to guys that didn't know me well in my new hall that I did in fact do this. I could see what they were doing very clearly. The new hall didn't like my old hall much (hence my decision to go there), and they wanted to malign my rep right away to the new guys.

    When they were done I responded with counsel of my own.

    1) I spoke about Jesus speaking to his disciples saying that the Pharisees "Lord it over the flock", but with them let that not be so. I then explained the word translated "Lord it over", has multiple meanings. One of which was "insist on authority". So while you insist on Lordship or authority Brother ____, Jesus insists you forego it. You just gave the speech of a Pharisee.

    2) The other elder there was a prick too. These guys are just the worst of the worst. So I counseled him to beware of developing inappropriate feelings for young boys or girls. I told him that as an elder, some of the young ones looked up to him, and he would want to make sure to never use that influence in such a way as to sexually gratify himself, even with seemingly benign things...

    Well all hell broke loose. "What are you implying? Where are you going with this?"

    Me: "Well brothers.....is there anything I am saying that is not correct or a good reminder for appointed men? Is it odd to receive counsel for something you have never done? Does it imply to those present that you like underage children if I counsel you about it publicly Brother? "

    aaaaaaaaand the meeting was over. The message was received clearly, and I was never asked to be met with again.

    The tactic used is clear. By counseling you about something, it by proxy sticks to you in some way. You are in a loose loose situation, where you are either argumentative, not accepting the counsel, or not being humble and appreciateing the brothers concern. I recognized this like a beam of light DURING this meeting. So I proceeded to counsel them as well. Once you get over the idea of counseling these guys, you realize that they have to sit there and take it, just like you just did. It became a very thrilling prospect, and it accomplished the goal I had of not being screwed with.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    problemaddict:

    I am glad you wrote this post because you reminded me of something that happened several times while I was in the religion and it left me seething with anger..Anger that I feel to this very day because there are people there I never got the chance to tell off.

    I am referring to the tactic you mention whereby you are counseled for something that you did not do. And you are correct that it - by proxy - sticks to you in some way. You are left feeling flabbergasted and saying to yourself "what the hell is going on".

    I always assumed this meant they thought evil of me and were projecting their own bias or problem.

    You are correct that if you "argue" or "refute" what they are saying they try to throw the bullshit that you are not "humble". What a crock of shit.

    I am so glad to be away from the abuse and garbage in this phony religion and the best thing I did was to walk away. Thank you for putting your finger on it. Kudos to you for identifying this trick.

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    LHG, they basically say there is no such thing as counsel that is "not needed". We are always all in need of loving counsel. So when they are done you simply ask, may I offer some thoughts to you brothers?

    Done. Let it rip. Why is raping kangaroos bad? Would God approve of meth? Get in there. Why you need to please your wife on a regular basis.

    Make it absurd and spin it back to them. Be serious.

  • hoser
    hoser

    Same thing happened to me.

  • hoser
    hoser

    Same thing happened to me.

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Now that is a classic moment. Thank you for sharing this. Everybody needs to read this thread.

    --sd-7

  • disposable hero of hypocrisy
    disposable hero of hypocrisy

    Brilliant!

    I wishI could reason under pressure and think on my feet, well done!

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Thanks SD-7.

    I've never really told my whole story here, simply because its to identifying.

    Honestly at the time, I wasn't thinking about these priciples, I just wanted my dignity, and refused to be a pawn in that mess any longer. Its one of my prouder moments in the whole mess.

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    Dispicable,

    I am sure you can. Honestly before that meeting I had never felt so much panic. My heart thumping out of my chest. I resolved (at the time), that i would just sit there quietly and not let them drag me into anything. I began to resent myself feeling such lack of self worth. I gave them so much power over me.

    I just had it.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    That's awesome! The real "a-hole" Eldubs need to be knocked down a few notches. NO ONE tells them that they are wrong. They are Princes, STARS, and Dukes!! They are deluded Watchtards and they need help.

    DD

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