Family Ties

by somebody 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • somebody
    somebody

    Another LIE told to the media/public on the JW-medai site.

    Do you shun former members?
    Those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned. In compliance with the Scriptures, however, members can be expelled for serious unchristian conduct, such as stealing, drunkenness, or adultery, if they do not repent and cease such actions. DISFELLOWSHIPPING DOES NOT SEVER FAMILY TIES. Disfellowshipped members may continue to attend religious services, and if they wish, they may receive pastoral visits. They are always welcome to return to the faith.—1 Corinthians 5:11-13.
    ________________________________

    "God certainly realizes that carrying out his righteous laws about cutting off wrongdoers often involves and affects relatives. As mentioned above, when an Israelite wrongdoer was executed, no more family association was possible. . . . You can appreciate that this would not have been easy for them. Imagine, too, how the wrongdoer’s brothers, sisters, or grandparents felt. Yet, their putting loyalty to their righteous God before family affection could be lifesaving for them." (The Watchtower, 4/15 1988, p. 28; bold added)

    "Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God’s judgments and the congregation’s action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them." (The Watchtower, 4/15 1988, p. 28; bold added)

    *** w81 9/15 26 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***
    2 God had purposed that families should be united in true worship, so religious beliefs would not create any divisions. But incidents occurred in which religion became a family issue. One of these was when Korah, Dathan and Abiram rebelled. Jehovah confirmed that he was dealing through Moses and Aaron, not through these religious rebels. Then Moses told the people to get away from the rebels’ tents. What would the children and households of Korah, Dathan and Abiram do? Would they put loyalty to family ahead of loyalty to Jehovah and his congregation?Most of those closely related to the rebels put family before God. Jehovah executed these relatives along with the rebels. —Num. 16:16-33.

    *** w81 9/15 29 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***
    18 The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one’s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the Bible’s inspired direction: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person . . . , not even eating with such a man.”—1 Cor. 5:11.

    *** w81 9/15 30 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***
    21 Great care needs to be exercised that a person’s situation as a disfellowshiped sinner is neither overlooked nor minimized. As the sons of Korah well demonstrated, our chief loyalty must be to Jehovah and his theocratic arrangement. We can be sure that when we uphold his standards and prefer association with his organized people, rather than with wrongdoers, we will have his protection and blessing.—Ps. 84:10-12.

    *** w81 9/15 30 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***
    22 Normally, relatives are often together at meals, picnics, family reunions or other social gatherings. But when someone has unrepentantly pursued sin and has had to be disfellowshiped, he may cause difficulties for his Christian relatives in regard to such gatherings. While they realize that they are still related to him, they do not want to ignore Paul’s advice that faithful Christians should “quit mixing in company” with an expelled sinner.

    23 There is no point in looking for some rule as to family members being at gatherings where a
    disfellowshiped relative might be present. This would be something for those concerned to resolve, in keeping with Paul’s counsel. (1 Cor. 5:11) And yet it should be appreciated that if a disfellowshiped person is going to be at a gathering to which nonrelative Witnesses are invited, that may well affect what others do. For example, a Christian couple might be getting married at a Kingdom Hall. If a disfellowshiped relative comes to the Kingdom Hall for the wedding, obviously he could not be in the bridal party there or “give away” the bride. What, though, if there is a wedding feast or reception? This can be a happy social occasion, as it was in Cana when Jesus attended. (John 2:1, 2) But will the disfellowshiped relative be allowed to come or even be invited? If he was going to attend, many Christians, relatives or not, might conclude that they should not be there, to eat and associate with him, in view of Paul’s directions at 1 Corinthians 5:11.
    ____________________________________

    We all know that an apostate by the definition made up by the WBTS is anyone who doesn't believe as they do, and adhere to their rules.

    So....why are family ties not severed? Because the disfellowshipped person is still living! Remember this sentence from the watchtower quoted?

    "Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue."

    The sentence on the JW-media sit, if the society wanted to be honest to the media should have read: "Disfellowshipping does not sever family blood ties." But to make it appear as if families aren't broken apart by disfellowshipping, they worded it the way they did. SNEAKY!

    How many people here have had their family ties severed because they disassociated themselves from the WBTS? How many people have brothers sisters, parents, and other relatives who won't even speak to them?

    somebody

    Edited by - somebody on 21 February 2001 17:49:7

  • TR
    TR
    Jehovah confirmed that he was dealing through Moses and Aaron, not through these religious rebels.

    The WTS just loves to compare itself to the authority bestowed upon characters in the bible. How they make that stretch is beyond me.

    TR

  • Simon
    Simon

    Thanks somebody
    I was about to copy this off their site ready for my meet on Friday!

  • somebody
    somebody

    you're welcome, Simon.
    are you meeting with elders Friday? If you posted about it,I missed it. There has been so many new posters lately, it's hard to keep up with all the new posts daily. but I try. :-) If you're meeting with elders, my thoughts and prayers will be with you and your family.

    peace,
    somebody

  • nelly136
    nelly136

    well theyre not going to tell the truth about the *truth*
    be bad for business if people got to read the small print first
    nelly

    good luck for friday simon,
    they coming to yours and are you going to make sure you've got a houseful of friends? :-)

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    `Mornin`, Chag, Hows my favourite Red Head?

    Sorry, I dont mean to be condescending, its just that I`m sat here with my Bible, and I can`t seem to find a reference to Disfellowshipping / Disassociating.

    Please can someone post as to where exactly I can find a reference to the terms DF`ing / DA`ing in the scriptures?

    Many Thanks,

    Yours in anticipation,

    Englishman.

  • thinker
    thinker

    We would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the Society is the Lord's channel.
    If others see it in a different way, that is their privilege. There should be full liberty of conscience. WT April 1, 1920, p. 100, 101.

    Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.
    God's law does not allow a marriage partner to dismiss his mate because his mate becomes disfellowshiped or apostatizes. Neither will the law of the land in most cases allow a divorce to be granted on such grounds. The faithful believer and the apostate or disfellowshiped mate must legally continue to live together and render proper marriage dues one to the other. A father may not legally dismiss his minor child from his household because of apostasy or disfellowshiping, and a minor child or children may not abandon their father or their mother just because he becomes unfaithful to God and his theocratic organization. The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors, and the child or children must render filial submission to the parent as long as legally underage or as long as being without parental consent to depart from the home. Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.
    If children are of age and continue to associate with a disfellowshiped parent because of receiving material support from him or her, then they must consider how far their spiritual interests are being endangered by continuing under this unequal arrangement, and whether they can arrange to support themselves, living apart from the fallen-away parent. Their continuing to receive material support should not make them compromise so as to ignore the disfellowshiped state of the parent. If, because of acting according to the disfellowship order of the company of God's people, they become threatened with a withdrawal of the parental support, then they must be willing to take such consequences.
    Satan's influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God's organization. To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order. How would or could this be done while living under the same roof or in personal, physical contact daily with the disfellowshiped? In this way: By refusing to have religious relationship with the disfellowshiped.
    The marriage partner would render the marriage dues according to the law of the land and in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted. But to have religious communion with the disfellowshiped person-no, there would be none of that! The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one. As Jesus said: "If he does not listen even to the congregation [which was obliged to disfellowship him], let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector [to Jehovah's sanctified nation]." (Matt. 18:17, NW) Hurt to such one would not be authorized, but there would be no spiritual or religious fellowshiping.
    The same rule would apply to those who are in the relation of parent and child or of child and parent. What natural obligation falls upon them according to man's law and God's law the faithful parent or the faithful child will comply with. But as for rendering more than that and having religious fellowship with such one in violation of the congregation's disfellowship order-no, none of that for the faithful one! If the faithful suffers in some material or other way for the faithful adherence to theocratic law, then he must accept this as suffering for righteousness' sake.
    The purpose of observing the disfellowship order is to make the disfellowshiped one realize the error of his way and to shame him, if possible, so that he may be recovered, and also to safeguard your own salvation to life in the new world in vindication of God. (2 Thess. 3:14, 15; Titus 2:8) Because of being in close, indissoluble natural family ties and being of the same household under the one roof you may have to eat material food and live physically with that one at home, in which case 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 and 2 John 10 could not apply; but do not defeat the purpose of the congregation's disfellowship order by eating spiritual or religious food with such one or receiving such one favorably in a religious way and bidding him farewell with a wish for his prosperity in his apostate course.
    *** Nov 15, 1952 Watchtower ***
    Questions from Readers

    "Religion is the worship and service of the Devil and his associate demons .. Religion is the chief means that puts fear into the minds of the people and leads them into the Devil's snare .. Truly then, as stated, 'religion is a snare and a racket,' employed to collect money from them under false representations." {WT Jan 15 1940 29}
    (they finally got one right !!!)

  • somebody
    somebody

    I'm fine, Englishman. thank you ..and I hope all is well with you.:-)

    :Sorry, I dont mean to be condescending, its just that I`m sat here with my Bible, and I can`t seem to find a reference to Disfellowshipping / Disassociating.

    :Please can someone post as to where exactly I can find a reference to the terms DF`ing / DA`ing in the scriptures?

    No can do, my friend. It ain't in there.

    actually, if you looked up "cutting off" or "cut off" you might find that phrase in the Bible. If you do, I'd be willing to bet that the scripture would have to do with judgement day and Jesus would be doing it. When Jesus said to STOP JUDGING and STOP CONDEMNING, and that God gave HIM the authority when he gave his Son for us....I gather he meant it. if judicial committees and disfellowhipping aren't judging and condemning, then I don't know what the hell is.

    :Many Thanks,

    :Yours in anticipation, ( I kinda like the sound of that ;-) )

    :Englishman.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi thinker,

    :Questions from Readers

    "Religion is the worship and service of the Devil and his associate demons .. Religion is the chief means that puts fear into the minds of the people and leads them into the Devil's snare .. Truly then, as stated, 'religion is a snare and a racket,' employed to collect money from them under false representations." {WT Jan 15 1940 29}

    (they finally got one right !!!)

    I agree!
    When I was a JW, I remember that we weren't suppose to call it a religion. We were supposed to say, " It's not a religion, it's a way of life." I wonder when the WBTS started referring to themselves as a religion anyway. Before they collected billions? or after? Maybe once money is involved, it's was no longer considered "worship and sevice to the Devil" That's something for me to look into. :-)

    peace,
    somebody

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    I loved the show Family Ties. Alex.P.Keaton was simply divine. I often yearned for his business sense and fashion savvy.

  • TheHighPriest
    TheHighPriest

    Hi chag,

    That was a super post, thanks for that I'm sending it to my JW family for a comment.hehe...

    THP

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