Who was right? Satan or Jehovah?

by professor 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  professor

  Satan is called the "father of the lie" because he told the very first lie to Eve.

  In the beginning, God told Adam to go nuts and eat all the fruit except the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden. He said "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

  So then fast forward, Eve was created and she's hanging out by the tree, talking to the serpent (Satan) and Satan says: "You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

  So what happened? They ate the fruit and died? NO. The Bible says they ate the fruit and suddenly their eyes were opened, they knew that they were naked, they knew good and evil that was previously hidden from them and they lived on for hundreds of years.

  And by the way, since they didn't know good and evil before they ate the fruit, then how were they supposed to know that listening to God was good and listening to the Serpent and eating the fruit was evil? Either way, God got really pissed (like He usually does in the old testament) and cursed everybody, Adam , Eve, the Serpent, the ground, everything in sight, and then Satan gets the bad rap.

  But how was Satan wrong and God proven true? Wasn't it the other way around? I mean, the name of the frickin' tree was "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Would it not make sense to Adam and Eve that its name pretty much gives away what it does? Otherwise it would be called "the tree of if you eat from it you'll be dead in 24 hours"? In my book, Satan wins this one.
• 

  cellomould

  You make a good point, Professor. But recall that the Genesis account does not use the name "Satan". It simply says "serpent".

  God, according to the account, cursed the serpent by making it slither on its belly and making it eat dust.

  We have to wait until the NT to get the "new light" that the original serpent is none other than Satan. Somewhere in those few thousand years, someone decided that God was too good to be evil also, so Satan was "created". (The concept of an antithesis to God was largely borrowed from Zoroastrian philosophy.)

  So going back to Genesis (with a parallel in Job, the 1st chapter of which is a later interpolation, and only one of two places in the OT where "Satan" is mentioned) we see a God that embodies both good and evil.

  In early religious philosophy, every event was God's doing.

  So without "Satan" in the Garden of Eden, which is how the story was first understood, this paradox is unraveled.

  'The serpent was the most cautious of all the beasts...'

  Yes, God cursed the serpent, but it is quite clear that the serpent was originally intended to be a voice of wisdom or reason.

  cellomould

  "You're crying 'why am I the victim?' when the culprit is YOU" Stevie Wonder
• 

  professor

  Yes. I like that.
• 

  SYN

  LOL, everything in Genesis really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Oh, and did I mention that that grain of salt must be the size of a mountain?

  "Vaccination has never saved a human life. It does not prevent smallpox." The Golden Age, Feb 4 1931 p. 293-4 - The Sacredness of Human Blood (Reasons why vaccination is unscriptural)
• 

  Xena

  Otherwise it would be called "the tree of if you eat from it you'll be dead in 24 hours"?

  LMAO!!!!!! Good one

  Of course some people argue that they symbolically "died" in Gods eyes when they ate the fruit...and of course the JW's assert that they died in God's "day" of 1000 years.....

  Personally I think it would have been kind of nice of God to be a little more uuummmm explicit with his directions and consequences to Adam and Eve, but what do I know, puny human that I am?????
• 

  Jim_TX

  Wellllllll... in my opinion, analyzing the 'account' in Genesis is like trying to analyze a children's story - like Hansel and Gretel.

  There are far too few 'details' and 'facts' to be able to get a good 'feel' for whut wuz goin on in this 'tale'.

  One can postulate all day long - and still come up with... well, there ain't enuf 'details'.

  As for the 'snake'... ya know - in Westerns, there's always someone referred to as a "Yellow bellied sap sucker, an' a lyin' snake!"

  So - who's to say that it wasn't just another person (human or not) standing there - and not a literal snake?

  Ya gotta 'member that these Genesis 'fables' are just that. Fables. They were written fer early Christians - to throw the 'fear of god' into them.

  Evidently it is still working in some religious circles.

  Regards,

  Jim TX
• 

  Fire Dragon

  Interesting thought, Jim. It could have been another person. Say for instance Lilith - Adam's first wife.

  "...if there is a hell, I'll see you there." (NIN - Downward Spiral)
  I'll be the one providing the fire.
• 

  teenyuck

  Since I do not have a bible (and really do not want to purchase one) I cannot look this up.....

  Who is Lilith? (I have images of Frazier's ex-wife.)

  I am serious. I have no recollection of a Lilith.

  Thanks for letting me go off thread and ask.
• 

  Fire Dragon

  Hey Puffs,

  I believe that most Christians consider her a myth. However, here are some good websites to try out:

  http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/lilith.htm

  http://www.geocities.com/druelh/life.html

  http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/

  http://freeweb.econophone.ch/daimon/385630522X_2E.htm

  http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/lillith.html

  http://www.lilitu.com/lilith/

  Enjoy!!

  "...if there is a hell, I'll see you there." (NIN - Downward Spiral)
  I'll be the one providing the fire.
• 

  teenyuck

  Thanks FireDragon, I especially like the Twin Peaks and Guys I think are Hot areas.