A friend of mine (who has recently started reading JWN) is having trouble eating and sleeping because, even after having recently woken up to TTATT.. they are still concerned about 'demons, everlasting destruction, and Jehovahs disapproval'.
I've tried to encourage them.
I'm sure you all understand that these things can take time, the transition period is often painful, to some extent. I'm still struggling with anger and depression myself.
I'll be away from JWN, off the internet, and thus out of contact with them for a while (don't ask why)... so please don't expect me to reply to or even look at what you post,
but my friend will be watching the thread even if they don't decide to post.
HERE IS MY REQUEST:
Can you share either a thread or personal experience that proved to you that the Bible wasn't inspired (contradictions, errors, failed prophesies etc) and that the bible God Jehovah and the demons don't exist, logically?
I know it's not a subject of great interest to many of us atheists perhaps, but you could be helping someone through a very difficult time.
Any experiences of how you got through such hard times when you learned TTATT would be appreciated too.. No sarcasm or evangelists, please.
I've got to go now..
Thank you.
HELP needed for a friend, please. Anyone?..
by defender of truth 23 Replies latest watchtower bible
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defender of truth
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defender of truth
To be clear, I don't mean they're in a life-threatening situation or anything like that, just struggling with the beliefs mentioned.
All helpful thoughts, wisdom, and threads appreciated. Thanks. -
Heartofaboy
Some of the best researchers on here may be in a different time zone to us Dot. I'm sure you will get what you are looking for.
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Jeannette
I don't know that I can help much but I started listening to podcasts of those that researched the Bible and they have proven that different scriptures have been plagarized from other cultures. Especially Revelation. They (whoever wrote this part, because everything is such a big secret in this organization), have read word for word from a prophetess in Rome about the woman sitting on the crescent moon. A secret society like the org has something to hide. It seems to me like it's a money-grubbing, land-stealing org and if you don't believe that, just stop going donating to the worldwide fund, or even, asking for money at the door. This org is fabulously rich with all the property they sold, and yes, they had to pay out mega bucks for child molestation cases but that is only a drop in their bucket. And who would want to support an org that sticks up for the perpetrators, that is the elders taken to court for child rape. They sit beside him in court and the poor little victim is victimized again. It lies to the congregants to keep them in line.
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KateWild
My personal experience is that the Dfing and RI'ing process is not from the Bible. I addition what is says in 1cor 14:34,35 about women being silent is a load of nonsense...it just means we can't expose wrong doing in the congregation.
Kate xx
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Blackbird Fly
For what its worth, I personally still believe in a Creator. And I havent decided how I feel about the Bible and its inspiration vs. the great possibility of human error in writing/translating it. I guess I take it with a grain of salt. There are some excellent principals in there for living a good respectable life. I absolutely dont believe that the WT and Borg are Gods "special people". way too much evidence to prove it doesnt have the backing of a Loving God. I have a hard time bringing myself to even use the name Jehovah. I feel I learn more about God from going for a hike in the woods or spending a misty morning at the ocean than from a room full of greedy pedophile protecting men in suits.
If your friend is reading this- its a difficult process waking up. Emotionally draining and just a roller coaster of emotions. I feel fortunate that I seem to have been able to get thru the process quicker than some. Most days Im at peace with my life and except for feeling pity for family still in and completely blinded. The most important thing for my process was staying away from all meetings. What helped me was maintaining my relationship with God in a way I felt comfortable with (connecting with nature and praying/meditating when I felt I needed to) Music helped me deal with alot too. Also helpful was doing research online and frequenting sites like this one for the support of people who knew what I was feeling and going thru. It helped me to see that many people had felt angry and hurt as I did but got past that stage. once I got past the daily anger of feeling used and deceived by a glorified publishing company I felt at peace, no guilt and actually proud for being able to save my child from going thru what I did.Hang in there friend!!!
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Still Totally ADD
Have them read Steve Hassan book on Mind control cults. This should help them reason their way out of the Wt. mind control cult. What you have told us shows the power mind control cults have over people. Still Totally ADD
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4thgen
Hello Defender of the Truth, It is very heartwarming for you to be concerned for your friend and make this request. Apparently you said that your friend may read what is written on this board. Do you think that the title of the post: "HELP needed for a friend, please. Anyone?.." would attract them to read it? Maybe so....Or maybe some something along the line of: "Are the Demons, a Reality or Imagined?" would attract their attention more?
If you friend did a searchon this site for "demons' there is TONS of information already commented on.
Just trying to help....Good Luck! Hugs, 4thgen
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objectivetruth
The org paints a Black and White Picture of God & the world.. When a former JW wakes up to this, their viewpoint on life can be seriously distorted.
Fortunately and Unfortunately the scriptures and God's Plan are not Black & White.
As to not bore anyone, I will mention a few Truths that can be proven thoroughly using the Scriptures as well as Common Sense.
1. God is benevolent, and his plan entails giving all Humans a Full chance at Eternal Life / Salvation. Some people may die at Armaggedon, however every human that has ever Lived will be Resurrected, and will live for 1,000 Years, in a world free from Satanic Influence.
2. There are things that we can do now, for "Demons" to completely flee from us. This can be seen in the Old Testament, Demons did not trouble the Jews, the reason is that that Jews followed God's Laws. It is only in the New Testament that you see Demon Possesion amongst the Gentiles.
3. As a few posters above mentioned, the Bible is not the "Perfect" word of God.. If it were, it would not have any errors or contradictions as it has now. The Bible is "inspired" of God in some books, but he has not protected the Bible completely from Manipulation or Translation errors.
- If your friend wishes to PM, me to discuss any specific challenges that he/she is facing, I'll help in any way that I can.
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Apognophos
Can you share either a thread or personal experience that proved to you that the Bible wasn't inspired (contradictions, errors, failed prophesies etc)
For me, my eventual realization was simply that there's a major absence of evidence that the Bible is inspired. The prophecies we were told had been fulfilled were either being misinterpreted or else the accounts could simply have been written after the prophecies were fulfilled. There's plenty of evidence that the final form of the OT was compiled much later than we were taught as Witnesses, allowing for various "prophecies" to be written after the fact.
Your friend will have to read a book or two about the writing of the Bible to see the evidence for this. For me, now, the idea that the Bible could possibly apply to the modern day is absurd. The OT verses about a paradise earth were talking about restoration of the Jewish homeland and the NT verses about the end coming soon were referring to the end coming soon! Not two thousand years later!
It's an absolute fool's game to believe that just because the end didn't come for the last 100 generations of people, it's definitely gotta come in our lifetime. If someone promises to pay you some money, and years pass with no payment, do you reason that with each passing year, they're more likely to pay you, or do you finally admit to yourself that you were suckered and clearly no payment is coming?
The ancestors of today's Christians comprise almost 2,000 years of suckers, an incredible legacy of gullibility. We know so many things today about life, the universe, and the writing of the Bible that there's no excuse for believing something that was written by sheepherders who thought the earth was flat.
The belief that the end is coming soon is endemic to human nature and reflects the desire to avoid growing old and dying. It's easier to contemplate a judgment day where one might be destroyed than to contemplate natural death, similar to the way that some people prefer suicide to wasting away slowly from a disease.
I don't know what else to say to help your friend except that he needs to do lots of general reading outside "TTATT material" and get his mind in order. If he has specific objections like, "What about this or that which I was taught?" then he needs to register here and speak up, or else we can't offer any specific help.
and that the bible God Jehovah and the demons don't exist, logically
Well, one cannot prove this. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But really, come on. I stopped believing in the boogeyman when I was a child. I was often too afraid to get to sleep until I eventually realized that I'd yet to see a boogeyman and no one else had claimed to see one either. From then on, I slept soundly.
Accounts of the demons are another trick of the brain. From a survival standpoint, it pays to be suspicious. The less suspicious humans died off eons ago in sabre-toothed tiger attacks, etc. We're the descendants of the people who freaked out whenever a bush rustled in the wind. It's not surprising, therefore, that if a coffee cup falls off the table on its own, people say, "Deemunz did it!"
But the fact that there is no clear and consistent explanation for how and why the demons do what they supposedly do makes it clear that they are a manifestation of anxiety, not an actual group of beings. I mean, plain and simple ignorance accounts for many supposed demonic experiences. I know a guy who is convinced that an antique tablecloth was possessed because it refused to burn until he thoroughly doused it in gasoline. Apparently he's never heard of lead-lined tablecloths. Are these nincompoops really someone your friend wants to continue to be mentally associated with?