Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane 250 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  DJS

  Moses Joe,

  I try to avoid these theist specific OPs out of respect, as I'm an atheist. However, you have caused a disturbance in the force. Your comments:

  " . . . and therefore god, without which there is literally no point to life other than to live and to die. Without these two things there is no reason for people to not behave has ISIS does, there's no reason for people not to just rape and pillage all over because this is the only life they get, so why live by any standards? Why not TAKE what you want?You take away the purpose of life and all we are are animals with no hope."

  That is pure and utter bullshit. We have repeatedly cited very good empirical evidence which suggests the more secular and atheistic a state, region or nation the more likely it is to be functional, ethical and contented. Either you can't read, you haven't read it or you are simply brain dead. And your analogy using ISIS? They do what they do because of god - the same god more or less that you worship.

  MJ, needing a make believe godlike personage in order to behave is weak. Humans are capable of doing the right thing for no other reason than it is the right thing. Only by continuing to do so will we evolve as a species. The right thing doesn't require a carrot (heaven, paradise) or a stick (destruction, torment).

  Those are antiquated, neanderthalic notions. Welcome to the 21st century.
• 

  M*A*S*H

  Vivian. I am getting into this now...

  Firstly I would like to support my argument by pointing out that you probably hate god and this is why you probably do not understand.

  We also have the words of Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman, Hindu, Islam Zoroastrian, Semitic and other religions from thousands of years ago. Are those also here because of divine intervention?

  If you managed to take time from your sinful life to think about things more clearly, you would probably agree that the Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman, Hinduism (possibly), Zoroastrian have little influence in today's modern world and are not understood by us good Christians . Islam and Semitic religions are Abrahamic religions and covered by the prophecy.

  My counter-argument here is that what special knowledge is required? Lots of people say things will last forever. Religions say that all the time. Why is it special that, out of all of those claims, one happened to maybe be right (since we can't ever prove it came true)?

  That kind of demonic baby eating logic demonstrates how disingenuous you are; basically you have just made it clear you would not accept any prophecy as being provable. If I predicted an asteroid will hit earth tomorrow - and one did - even if I could demonstrate this could be unknowable by science you could just brush it off saying "Well people are predicting asteroid impacts all the time, you just got lucky".

  You ask what special knowledge is required. I could write an endless list of the journey of the Abrahamic religions and claim "that" is the knowledge required to make the claim. I could pick one thing - the special knowledge that Constantine the Great would convert and help the religion on its way.

  If you are soooooo smart why don't you try and write a book that will still be around in 2000 years - case closed. You are so close minded.

  Right I'm off to pray for some sick people... saves actually doing anything.
• 

  ablebodiedman

  "Cut off with nothing for himself" doesn't imply "dead". It was all part of a plan whereby he would be King of Reality. The "prophecy" doesn't say what would happen, how it would happen, who it would happen to or the results. It's so vague it could mean a bartender cut him off. It literally isn't capable of being fulfilled in detail because there ARE NO DETAILS, except what the reader pushes back into the text.

  Good argument!

  I am convinced the 70 weeks "cut off with nothing for himself" has nothing to do with his crucifixion.

  It has everything do do with this:

  Daniel 8:11-12

  　And all the way to the Prince of the army it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 　And an army itself was gradually given over, together with the constant [feature], because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success.

  the established place of his sanctuary

  Hebrews 10:19-21

  　Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 　which he inaugurated (established) for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 　and since we have a great priest over the house of God,

  the established place of his sanctuary (aka Christianity) was thrown down.

  Christianity is completely undermined and thrown down to the point where the Messiah is "cut off with nothing for himself".

  It's so vague it could mean a bartender cut him off. It literally isn't capable of being fulfilled in detail because there ARE NO DETAILS, except what the reader pushes back into the text.

  Which is why Jesus Christ said that Daniel must be read with discernment.

  Daniel further supports my conviction in Chapter 2:

  Daniel 2:44

  44

  　"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

  So far every kingdom that God set up has been brought to ruin.

  What kingdom did God last set up?

  answer: Christianity.

  Christianity is ruined!

  The next and last kingdom will not be:

  Revelation 21:25-27

  25

  　And its gates will not be closed at all by day, for night will not exist there. 26 　And they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 　But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life [will].

  Matthew 13:40-43

  The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40　Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 　The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdomall things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 　and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 　At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.

  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be.

  Transgression Terminated!

  Daniel 9:24

  　"There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite,

  Let him that has ears listen.

  abe
• 

  Vidqun

  Viv, you’re attempting to apply scientific method [principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses, according to Webster] on the following:

  history

  1: tale, story

  2

  a : a chronological record of significant events (as affecting a nation or institution) often including an explanation of their causes

  b : a treatise presenting systematically related natural phenomena

  c : an account of a patient’s medical background

  d : an established record

  3: a branch of knowledge that records and explains past events

  4

  a : events that form the subject matter of a history

  b : events of the past

  c : one that is finished or done for (Webster).

  As you can see from above definitions, you’re definitely going to encounter problems by doing that. And “cutting off” could be applied to Christ’s death. For those that are interested in an explanation:

  As Feinberg has ably demonstrated, the Hebrew term for “cut off in verse 26 is an appropriate reference to Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross. “The ‘cutting off’ of Messiah indicates a violent death. The Hebrew word is used of making a covenant, involving the death of a sacrificial animal (Gen 15:10 , 18 ). The word is used of the death penalty ( Lev 7:20 ) and always of an unnatural violent death (cf. Isa 53:8 ).”

  Vol. 166: Bibliotheca Sacra. 2009 (663) (334). Dallas , TX : Dallas Theological Seminary.

  Feinberg, “An Exegetical and Theological Study of Daniel 9:24-27 ,” 202.
• 

  Vidqun

  The following is a prophecy with a promise in the book of Revelation. Time will tell whether it comes true or not:

  But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth. (Rev 11:18 NWT)
• 

  Viviane

  Viv, you’re attempting to apply scientific method [principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses, according to Webster] on the following:

  So.. if you reject science, observation and ALL eyewitness testimony is out the window for you.

  Without that, what are you left with?
• 

  Viviane

  I am convinced the 70 weeks "cut off with nothing for himself" has nothing to do with his crucifixion.

  It has everything do do with this:

  How so? Be specific with predicted names, dates and events.
• 

  Vidqun

  So, you are left with exercising good judgement, whether a report is true, half-true or false. And you have to allow for the benefit of the doubt. Take for example Josephus' testimony on Daniel. Do you accept it as fact or fiction:

  Josephus (ca. 100 CE) would view Daniel as “one of the greatest prophets,” because not only did he prophesy future things, but he also fixed the time during which these would come to pass. He viewed the third kingdom of Dan. 2 as Greece, “from the west,” intimating that the fourth would be Rome. He was also of the opinion that the book of Daniel was in existence prior to the arrival of Alexander the Great in the fourth century BCE. Elsewhere Josephus interprets the actions of Antiochus IV Epiphanes as being the fulfillment of prophecies made by Daniel in the 6th century BCE. He also tells of a tower that Daniel had built at the height of his fame, at Ecbatana or Susa (according to Jerome’s copy) that became the burial place of kings. This structure was still in existence in his day, so his detractors could go and see it.
• 

  Bart Belteshassur

  Vidqun - Where is there any specific indication that that Messiah who is "cut off" is Jesus? Why would anyone draw this conclusion, there is no evidence in the text is there? And if this Messiah is Jesus in 33CE who is the Messiah who appears at the end of the first seven weeks (49 years)?

  Trying to get a grip on what is being discussed here before I join in.

  BB
• 

  Phizzy

  Josephus sees Daniel 9 as fulfilled in Emperor Vespasian and the events around 66-70 C.E, from memory. (?)

  The first instance of a Christian interpretation of Daniel 9 is early 3rd Century, is this not strange ?