This has to be watched!!! So thought provoking!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYvcc8ui3CM&list=PL7420408E36541DA4&index=2
The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
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humbled
Yes, stuckinarut2, incredibly sick. It is the very story that eventually got me out of the WT. I took i up wih the elders, who sent me up to the CO, and then I had to put it before the Brooklyn crowd.
I have the transcript of the whole year of it before I da/df in the JWN archive.
Maeve
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designs
In Judaism the Abraham Isaac story is seen as the advancement culturally away from human sacrifice.
It is one of the central reasons why Jews do not accept Jesus 'sacrifice'- the Jewish messiah is not to sacrifice himself.
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humbled
Here was the sickest part of the Abraham /Isaac story as I saw it unfold when I dealt with the WT:
Even given that there was latitude within the Hebrew language of Genesis 22 for Jehovah NOT TO BE A SON-OF-A-BITCH, the local elders (of course not allowing themselves to think beyond My Book of Bible Stories) and the Corporation/Organization prefered that Jehovah be a psychotic monster as the video portrays him--
They could see that the language of the story did not include the word(zebach) for a throat-slashing slaying--that the concept-word exclusively in the account (olah) had a nuance that allowed for a totally different idea of the intent that did not violate subsequent element of doctrine. They did not disagree with the evidence or reasoning. Yet they were fixed on the scenario of a bloody, tricky god who violated his own stated principles.
I told them that it was impossible to worship a god who behaved as the one featured in My Book of Bible Stories.
So the cogs of the Organization went to work......and now---- here I am.
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stuckinarut2
Wow...well done 'humbled'!
It must have been an ordeal...but Im glad you are now free...and here with all of us!
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jgnat
Karen Armstrong in her essay on Genesis, "In the Beginning..." notes that Isaac was a passive player after that terrifying event. Like he became a shadow of his former self. Heck, he was a passive player on the altar.
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BU2B
Good video. I like the whole channel. If God was good, the test would have been failed by Abraham. If I was god and administered the same test, I would not be looking for obedience, but for Abraham to refuse to kill his son. His maintaining basic ethics in the face of a divine decree would be what I was looking for. No god who would ask someone to do this is worthy of worship.
I find this account as well as the account of Job, as well as mostly all of Genesis very disturbing. The God of the bible is a moral monster. If someone truly was to have "the mind of god" they would be imprisoned as a psycopath.
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BU2B
I asked my die hard JW wife: if she heard a voice in her head say it was Jehovah, and tell her to drown our two daughters in the Niagara River to show her obedience, would she do it? She said no and she would get mental health evaluation if she heard a voice claiming to be god in her head tell her to kill her kids. (I was relieved to hear this, because she has said a couple weeks ago she would let our children die because of a FDS decree, even if she knew they were wrong. She would be obedient. I told her, thats when I would come in and save them)
How anyone can view this as a healthy expression of faith and a nice story is beyond me. Of course, the canned JW response would be that Abraham knew Je-hover could resurrect Isacc if Abraham was obedient. *************PUKE~!!!
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stuckinarut2
Good point BU2B.
I raised this account (not the nonstampcollector video...although I dearly want to show her these videos!) to my wife.
She also said "God could ressurect etc..."
I said " How did ABRAHAM KNOW THAT? He had never seen a ressurection, nor had it ever been discussed up until that time in history!"
Just because Paul said that in the 1st century doesnt make it a fact! Paul was just making known his thoughts!
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Zoos
When I was a kid I remember telling my grandfather how cruel I thought it was that God would tell Abraham to murder his own son. The response I got was, "When God tells you to do it, it's not murder. And besides, God must have known that it would be written about and used for generations to help mankind be obedient to God."
He wen't on, "And remember, God does not test us with evel things." (James 1:13)
I concluded early on that telling a man to kill his children is not evil.