I can't speak for myself because I haven't left yet, but you'd probably agree that the key to surviving leaving the religion is finding a new group that accepts us, and finding out that we have an identity of our own. That's the only way to get our conscience to tell us we're worthy. If one doesn't let go of the old baggage and their conscience still tells them they are failing to meet the standards of a group they're no longer in, then it might actually result in death, at least a sort of death.
What is a morally upright life?
by jgnat 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Xanthippe
The only way to get your conscience to tell you that you are worthy is to do what you think is worthy. Finding an entire group that thinks you are worthy, good luck with that! The rise of individualism has made that practically impossible, thank god! Be your own person but make friends who genuinely care about you.
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Apognophos
Well, to a degree, the group that accepts you can simply be society at large. A JW is trained to cut themself off from that acceptance by turning their noses up at almost all manner of celebrations and turning down invitations to hang out, as well as by not contributing to charities and not voting. So if they keep up those habits, and some ex-JWs might, then when they leave the religion, they won't gain a new social identity. Thus, their conscience, still trained by the religion, will condemn them because they aren't making themselves an accepted part of any group; not the one they left (or were kicked out of), nor general society. That's what I'm suggesting, any way.
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yadda yadda 2
yadda, human compassion is a many varied thing, and is tied to cuteness. Too bad we have more compassion for the Panda than the Eastern Rattler.
Lol, JGnat saw the image I embedded of a cute doggy and decided 'cuteness' must be a factor and we discriminate against snakes.
Have you been on the wine JGNAT??
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jgnat
yadda yadda, cuteness is a factor in compassion. I didn't just make that up.
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/gsherman/files/sherman_and_haidt_cuteness_and_disgust_emotion.pdf
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jgnat
This means everyone knows what is right and wrong. - pinku
Except for people who are not "true people". Pinku, you make plenty of declarative statements but none of these statements are backed up by hard statistics or good science. So from my point of view, it's a puff in the wind. Evolution is far more proven than your puff pieces.
The theory of evolution allows for decline. There are entire branches of the evolutionary tree that have been lopped off by misfortune.
But you haven't provided any evidence of moral decline. And there's good evidence that many of us retain a rosy picture of the past, painting the present as relatively unpretty. But do the facts bear it out? Every time I look, the hard evidence proves that we have it better off than any other generation.
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jgnat
Interesting contribution, Heaven, thank you. I was hoping to attract you to this thread.
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jgnat
Xanthippe, you are expressing many of the thoughts I had when I explored sanctity.
I agree that guilt can be very destructive. Perhaps it is the flip side of sanctity. Many of our best features if taken too far can end up being destructive. Compare for instance, a nurturing love of a parent compared to that of a narcicisst that demands attention. It's love twisted. So a small amount of guilt might be a useful deterrent but excessive guilt can spiral us in to dysfunctional behavior.
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jgnat
Apognophos, I hear what you are saying. Enzo's challenge has me reading wider and I've been thinking about our highly adaptive natures and how we develop personas to integrate with whatever group we happen to be part of. Lifton speaks of the people living and working in the highly abusive Nazi war camps and the ability of a prison guard for instance to commit all sorts of atrocities during the day, then going home and by all appearances living as a peacable neighbour and loving husband. It's like he had two personas adapted to each environment.
Hassan of course speaks of the cultic personality and the natural personality. But perhaps we build as many personalities as we need to fit in.
I did a lot of highway driving this weekend and I noticed that the jostling for position quickly settles to a communal agreement on the speed limit, regardless of what the signage says. Those who cannot fit in either speed ahead or drop behind, finding their own norm. We stay generally within the limits of what we are supposed to, but our fellow drivers have a great deal more influence even than the law.