Blondie, the JW make a clear difference between if you do something for your boss and if YOU are the boss. For instance, if you work for a roofing company, your boss could tell you to fix the roof of a church. But if you are the boss, you would not be allowed to take the church as a client. Here, the boss is clearly the Congregation, not the government. For instance, would they allow themselves to take a crew of the RBC and, upon directive of the government, fix up a church? Of course not! There is no difference here, the flag is a clear display of alegence to the government.
Chile and the flag: It's true!! Undeniable evidence!!
by ILoveTTATT 96 Replies latest jw friends
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blondie
Public buildings and private residences are required to display the flag on Navy Day (21 May), National Day (18 September) and Army Day (19 September). [ 11 ] [ 12 ] If the flag is displayed incorrectly or not displayed at all during these days, the person responsible may be fined. [ 13 ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chile
Asociación Cristiana Testigos de Jehová. Casilla 267. PUENTE ALTO. CHILE. +56 2-2428-2600. +56 2-2428-2609 (Fax) ...
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StephaneLaliberte
I have gone to google maps and looked at a few kingdom halls there, I have seen 3 of them with polls but no flag. The explaination that they raise the flag on certain days explain the presence of the polls!
I wouldn't be surprised that many don't even do it on thoses days... but the picture at the start of this thread is undenyable.. some actually do it!
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blondie
ecan6, I guess you haven't read my posts much; I merely report what the WTS has said, that does not mean I support it.
JUST REPORTING, NOT SUPPORTING
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StephaneLaliberte
Sorry Blondie, sometimes, what we write sound different then what we meant... I have enjoyed your posts for years on a regular basis... I would not imagine that you were trying to defend the hypocresy of the WT allowing their congragation to wave the flag in chili dispite their doctrinal stand on the matter
... I simply wanted to draw your attention to what I wrote... no disrespect :)
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ILoveTTATT
Hi ecan6, can you post the pics on Google maps of the KH's with the posts?
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StephaneLaliberte
This is the LINKto the google map for one of the halls. The poll is on the left.
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cultBgone
Apog...if the US govt passed a law that everyone must display the US flag on July 4 each year, do you honestly think every kingdumb hall would have one without protest? Seriously? No one is saying it's flag worship, but just the act of deliberately displaying a country's flag to celebrate or honor a specific occasion goes absolutely contrary to everything we were taught while in the clutches of the bOrg.
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darkspilver
OK, don't believe this has been highlighted by blondie yet, but the following two quotes are interesting to review:
Watchtower 2002, September 15, page 25:
“Hold a Good Conscience”
After describing the ineffectiveness of man-made objects of veneration, the psalmist said: “Those making them will become just like them, all those who are trusting in them.” (Psalm 115:4-8) Obviously, then, any employment that directly involves manufacturing objects of adoration, including national flags, would be unacceptable to Jehovah’s worshipers. (1 John 5:21) Other employment situations may also arise when Christians respectfully show that they worship neither the flag nor what it represents but only Jehovah.
An employer, for example, may ask an employee to raise or lower a flag displayed at a building. Whether an individual would do so or not depends on his personal view of the circumstances. If raising or lowering the flag is part of a special ceremony, with people standing at attention or saluting the flag, then performing this act amounts to sharing in the ceremony.
On the other hand, if no ceremony accompanies the raising or lowering of the flag, then these actions constitute nothing more than performing such tasks as preparing the building for use, unlocking and locking the doors, and opening and closing the windows. In such instances, the flag is simply an emblem of the State, and raising or lowering it among other routine tasks is a matter for personal decision based on the dictates of one’s Bible-trained conscience. (Galatians 6:5) The conscience of one person might move him to ask his supervisor to have some other employee put up and take down the flag. Another Christian might feel that his conscience would permit him to handle the flag as long as no ceremony is involved. Whatever the decision, true worshipers should “hold a good conscience” before God.—1 Peter 3:16.
There is no Scriptural objection to working in or being in public buildings, such as municipal offices and schools, where the national flag is displayed. A flag might also appear on postage stamps, automobile license plates, or other government-produced items. Using such objects does not in itself make individuals participants in devotional acts. What is significant here is, not the presence of a flag or a replica thereof, but how one acts toward it.
Flags are often displayed on windows, doors, cars, desks, or other objects. Clothing with the motif of a flag imprinted on it can also be purchased. In some countries, it is illegal to wear such items. Even if doing so would not violate the law, what would it indicate relative to a person’s position with regard to the world? Concerning his followers, Jesus Christ said: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” (John 17:16) Not to be overlooked is the effect such an action could have on fellow believers. Could it injure the conscience of some? Might their resolve to remain firm in the faith be weakened? Paul counseled Christians: “Make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not be stumbling others.”—Philippians 1:10.
(The above is partly a 'reprint' from the Questions From Readers, Watchtower 1977, January 15, page 63: "May a Christian raise or lower a flag at his place of work?")
Yearbook 1989, pages 100-101, regarding events in Austria during April 1938:
"To express their solidarity with the new regime, people were required to decorate their windows with the flag bearing the swastika. In the small town of Knittelfeld, Sister Altenbuchner lived in an apartment that faced the street. Time and again, local representatives of the regime approached her, demanding that the swastika flag be displayed in her windows. They made it known that if she declined to do so, she would reap the animosity of all her neighbors. Apparently she faced a united hostile front. For reasons of conscience, she decided that she would not hang the flag. The consequences? She was given a court order to vacate her apartment facing the street and move into one assigned to her at the rear of the house, where no display of flags was required — a solution that she never had expected."
The Yearbook quote above is interesting - Altenbuchner appears to be the only one mentioned NOT displaying the flag, which leads to the question: what did the other witnesses do that lived in apartments where it was required to display such a flag - or was she the only one... which seems unlikely?
That's all folks!
DarK SpliveR -
darkspilver
No replies yet? Maybe too deep....
Well, let's go even deeper... and personal... ;)
Take the quote above from the 2002 Watchtower: "What is significant here is, not the presence of a flag or a replica thereof, but how one acts toward it."
The 'bottom line' would appear to be that a JW would be respectful (including not being disrepectful) towards the flag, but would not venerate it.
But remember, a person simply displaying a flag does not in itself mean that they are acting respectfully towards it, how so?
Let's take the USA flag as an example - what does the law in the USA tell us?
The United States Flag: Federal Law Relating to Display - http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf
Section 8, part i: The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.
In view the above Law, how would you view using the items below?
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Converting-Pride-Luncheon-Napkins/dp/B001GQHNWA/
http://www.amazon.com/Artstyle-Liberty-Patriotic-American-Independence/dp/B00KDNHC6O/And that isn't a rhetorical question....
That's all folks!
DarK SpliveR