Why I Refuse to Accept the term APOSTATE

by Black Man 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • Black Man
    Black Man

    Been going back in forth with my mom (who is a longtime pioneer and dyed-in-the-wool JW) about the term apostate. She has labeled me one because of my fading and because I stopped attending meetings a few years ago. I told her that I refuse to accept the term apostate because its a LAZY WAY for the WTS to not deal with dissenters and address WHY people are leaving this organization in droves.

    There's no effort made to see whether it's been WTS policies, lunacy, that are responsible for people turning "apostate." But no, because you leave and have moved on from it, their responsible is to embrace the philosophy of a 4-year old and resort to name calling. And its all so LAZY!!!

  • undercover
    undercover

    ...their [response] is to embrace the philosophy of a 4-year old and resort to name calling.

    Not only are they 'babes as to badness', they're babes in rational thought and independent thinking. What they think, what they believe, is spelled out for them. They don't have to think about it, so they rarely do. And when someone challenges their belief system, they resort to the language and reasoning of the WTS, as it has been pounded in their brains for years and years.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    An apostate has abandoned their former beliefs. I, while not running from the term, recognize that I have not abandoned any teachings but have grown from them, learned more beyond them, added information to them.

  • cult classic
    cult classic

    You're right, BlackMan. It is laziness.

    JWs spend a huge amount of time congratulating and validating each other. They are completely stumped when someone gets out of the line. It's just easy to point fingers and gossip.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    It's hard to understand how you can be an apostate from human ideas and guesswork.

    DD

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Dear Black Man,

    my oft repeated stance on this is that I cannot be an Apostate from a religion I was never part of, and the same applies to you if you left more than 3 or 4 years ago. Those of us who have been out for that time, or longer, never embraced the teachings the WT/JW org now holds, so, how could we possibly apostasize from them ?

    As I said to two Elders who called on me a while ago to "invite me back", what I left is no longer there to go back to, all the unique teachings have changed, I then said, "you will have to treat me as a member of the public who has never encountered your religion, and convince me you now have the truth", I added "There's a challenge for you". Of course they have not risen to the challenge, and never will.

    Be frank with your Mom, and say something similar, let her prove they now have the truth, do not let her call you an Apostate, the Label just don't fit.

    As I said on another Thread, we need a new Label for ourselves, one that is dignified and shows that we have left, not for any of the unsavourary reasons they would like to ascribe to us, but because we know it is NOT THE TRUTH !

    I cannot think of a snappy label that is fully fitting, that shows we have the moral highground, that shows we feel that their religion has no merit, and that would make them feel,as they should, on the back foot, perhaps some of the very inventive and febrile minds here on JWN can come up with something.

    "Enlightened Leaver" comes to mind, but there must be a better one.

  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    Ask your Mom if she realizes that the founders of the JW religion were Apostates from their fomer belief system and were likely hasseled by thier former friends. Apparently being called Apostate, didn't bother them or stop them.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    While the technical dictionary definition fits, the many connotations that the Watchtower adds does not. For instance, apostates are supposed to mislead people with “lies, half-truths and misrepresentations.” If THAT was the definition and meaning of apostate, I object to it, while not objecting to the actual dictionary definition.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLkAu1h7oH0&list=PLyNx0oM_bmgDR_jCICclFAMGVxNwvKFHJ&index=0

    Playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyNx0oM_bmgDR_jCICclFAMGVxNwvKFHJ

  • designs
    designs

    All progress in Christianity came from people willing to be heretics.

  • SAHS
    SAHS

    I don’t think that there is necessarily anything wrong with the term “apostate” – it just depends on what a person is an apostate to. It can be a very positive thing, as in the case of XJWs. Those folks who have “turned apostate” toward the WTS have done so for a reason – and a damn good one at that! The reason for those who become “apostates” from the WTS is valid as a conscious and logical decision, and as such their “apostasy” is not something for which they should either be ashamed of or judged upon.

    But if, say, a person became an “apostate” toward something that they rightly shouldn’t be, such as an apostate toward the category of people who follow beneficial legal laws like not drinking and driving, not stealing, not committing hate crimes, etc. – if a person were to be an active apostate to that, which is beneficial and required under basic “natural law” of general human society, then of course that would be a bad thing. No one would be proud to claim that they were an “apostate” of the followers of the laws about not drinking and driving, fire safety laws, public sanitary laws for food preparation, etc. (This is just a hypothetical, philosophical example about actively abandoning a particular type of “former beliefs” and principles, specifically in relation to legal standards of law, order, and public safety.)

    However, if, say, someone were to become an “apostate” toward something like the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), Hell’s Angels, the Mafia, the Bloods or Crips, al-Qaeda, ISIS, etc. – if someone were to be an apostate of that, then that would be a totally different kind of scenario in that what is being apostatized from as a “former belief” is something known to be negative, and so apostatizing from that would thus be a good thing, something to rightly be proud of. There would certainly be nothing wrong with the term “apostate” in that case, wouldn’t there?

    Now, in the case of being an “apostate” to the JW religion, that is really a beneficial scenario, as the WTS is proven to be something with definite and significant negative aspects. Also, wasn’t “Judge” Rutherford and his corporate empire apostate from Russell? And, indeed, aren’t all of JWs apostates from beliefs which the GB had taught previously? And the current GB teachings will no doubt be considered apostate in relation to whatever future “new light” changes arise.

    So, I belief that being considered an “apostate” is not something which should necessarily be taken in a negative or undesirable context. Although it may be rather “lazy” of the WTS to broadly use that label for everyone who simply decides to not accept their teachings and move on, that word “apostate” is something that denotes an intelligent an methodical decision – and the bearer of that term can rightly walk with their head held high.

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