WHY are Watchtower leaders OBSCURANTIST and how can we fight them effectively?

by Terry 38 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  sunny23

  A quick list I made of WT quotes directing sheep NOT to question their (GB) authority:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/271792/1/Dont-Question-GOD-aka-the-governing-body

  As to a plan of action. The best way is to appeal to the little "skeptic" in everyone. I believe this is what lead all of us here in the first place isn't it? Give current JW's an easier route and reason to explore. Make them see the URL over and over without having to take that large leap in typing in apostate topics in google and feeling Satan on their shoulders.

  I have been itching to run by Kinkos and have them print up several of these:

  

  I live off of the one and only small road that leads in and out of the towns newest kingdom hall and could post those signs along that road at entrance of my neighborhood where 4 or 5 congregations meet. Also post some at the older hall where 4 more congs meet only 10miles from here too. Not sure if I need permission from owner of jwfacts so I PMd him in case.
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  OUTLAW

  Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.

  Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:

  First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
  Because I was not a Socialist.

  Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
  Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

  Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
  Because I was not a Jew.

  Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

  ____________________

  It was Neville Chamberlain who would be best remembered as the champion of the Munich Pact, having met privately with Hitler at Berchtesgaden, the dictator's mountaintop retreat, before the Munich conference. Chamberlain, convinced that Hitler's territorial demands were not unreasonable (and that Hitler was a "gentleman"), persuaded the French to join him in pressuring Czechoslovakia to submit to the Fuhrer's demands. Upon Hitler's invasion of Poland a year later, Chamberlain was put in the embarrassing situation of announcing that a "state of war" existed between Germany and Britain. By the time Hitler occupied Norway and Denmark, Chamberlain was finished as a credible leader. "Depart, I say, and let us have done with you!" one member of Parliament said to him, quoting Oliver Cromwell. Winston Churchill would succeed him as prime minister soon afterwards.

  ........................Terry

  That`s worse than lame..

  Is the WBT$ coming to get anyone?!.....No!.....LOL!!..

  So now your as Bad as the WBT$ using Misleading information to Further your Agenda..

  .

  ..........................................Have You Ever Heard Of Godwins Law?!..

  ...................................................

  .

  .......When a person is out of Reasonable Arguements,they Compare the Opponent to Nazis..

  The moment you compare an Opponent to Nazi`s without Reasonable Proof,you Lose the Debate..

  .................As your Unable to Provide that Proof.....The WBT$ Wins One More Time..

  .

  .............................................WBT$ "JW.ORG" has been a Huge Success..

  ...............The Only JW`s you can help,are the ones who "WANT" to Escape the WBT$..

  .................................................The Rest Are Happy Where They Are..

  ...................................................................................................................OUTLAW......................................................
• 

  sunny23

  Is the WBT$ coming to get anyone?!.....No!.....LOL!!..

  I believe the analogy was used to emphasize the watchtower as they perusue gaining new members. Yes they are out "to get" more publishers for sure. And Terry was equating Niemöller with unsuspecting householders who have no idea what they are saying "yes" to when allowing bible studies. Perhaps I misinterpreted it. Eitherway, the point is, equipping potential JW housholders with TTATT is just as important as deconverting JW's.
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  The problem with this forum is that the intellectual brilliance of someone like Terry is utterly wasted. How much time did Terry put into that amazing opening post but how many views will this get from JW's?

  This forum is largely a huge waste of time and effort by the many brilliant ex-apostates trying to expose the WTS and help lurkers escape, through it's absolutely hopeless categorisation of the truly important subjects on here and inability to rank threads of their importance.

  A brilliant thread like this will quickly disappear under the myriad snowflakes of new threads constantly being created as 'Active theads' of mostly superficial and trivial subjects. Quickly buried, forgotten and seen by hardly anyone and never seen again.

  This forum needs a total overhaul and is wasting many brilliant apostates efforts but Simon seems to have little to no sincere desire to remedy it in any great hurry. I am rapidly reaching the point of not wasting my precious time on here anymore.
• 

  Quendi

  We have an obligation to speak out against evil and that I think is the point Terry wishes to make. For in my mind, the WTS is indeed evil as the trail of broken friendships, ruptured families and ruined lives leading to its door amply attests. Opposing the WTS doesn't have to mean breaking out torches and pitchforks to storm its different centers and campuses in New York state or even mounting public protests outside large Witness gatherings. But as sunny23 asserts, we should not stand idly by and see family members, friends and acquaintances unwittingly led to harm by the WTS. We should warn them lovingly but firmly that association with this cult is not in their best interests, and the same goes for active Witnesses who may be questioning their continued support. Sharing TTATT is really life-saving, in my view.

  Quendi
• 

  Finkelstein

  This forum is largely a huge waste of time and effort by the many brilliant ex-apostates trying to expose the WTS and help lurkers escape,

  Thats bit harsh don't you think, this forum has helped hundreds maybe even thousands escape the mental clutches of the Watchtower Corporation.

  .

  I admit though there is alot of insignificant irrelevant tripe here.
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  Has it Finkelstein?

  Or have websites like JWfacts helped more to escape? My point is this forum could be doing a lot better to help persons access information to help them answer their queries and escape the organisation.

  As you note, the volume of trivial tripe that gets aired and gets equal air-time under 'Active threads' here swamps out the really important, interesting topics and thinkers on this forum who soon get snowed under the constant avalance of mostly crap on this forum.

  There is a goldmine of incredible information and research going back years that is buried, forgotten on this forum because of the failure to categorise the subjects properly and to have a system where people can access this properly. How many even bother to use the 'Search' function, and when they do, it's not very helpful as you can hardly tell the merit of one search item from another or how old it is. Yet we see new members coming on here all the time asking the same old questions ad nauseum but the quality of posters and ex-JW's is diminishing who can really answer their questions thoroughly and intellectually impressively. Persons like Leolaia or Narkisoss, for example, genuine scholars who have come and gone probably realising their incredible efforts are largely wasted on here.
• 

  Finkelstein

  As for Leolaia or Narkisoss yes I do miss their insightful knowledge as well their intellect.

  But hey Terry's threads do a pretty good job of pulling off the veil of the idealogical constructs of the WTS..

  Provoking people to think little more about what they have been thinking and absorbing via the indoctrination of the WTS.

  .

  You would have to admit though that the WTS messes up people's minds pretty good, so much so they have hard time opening their minds

  to contradictory information of what the WTS. propagates with such vigor.
• 

  Terry

  I think it is a bit of a stretch to say I have called anybody a Nazi.

  The quotation was given in FULL CONTEXT of who said the words and in what historical setting.

  If you don't speak up against tyranny (the Watchtower denies human rights) you end up in its clutches.

  ****

  I believe the language I used was precise:

  Identify

  Describe

  Plainly state

  Shine a spotlight

  Boldly criticize

  All of the above actually meet the criteria OUTLAW endorses:

  The best anyone can do is to expose the WBT$,help the people who want to escape the WBT$..

  AND..

  Provide information,so people are less likely to Join the WBT$..

  ._________________

  I can't quite figure out where I called for "taking down the Watchtower."

  Anyone who thinks they`re going to Take the WBT$ Down..

  Hasn`t Been Paying Attention..

  ____________________

  And now, let's be honest; who was doing the name-calling?

  Pretending to have a Plan,to take the WBT$ Down,is Narcissistic and Self Indulgent..

  You're wasting time and resources.

  _____________

  I'm afraid OUTLAW is over-reacting to his own strawman, but I do appreciate his wanting to save me from wasting my time.

  I'm sorry I wasted his.
• 

  OUTLAW

  I think it is a bit of a stretch to say I have called anybody a Nazi.....Terry

  You used Nazi`s as an illustration........Are we supposed to think you meant hot dog vendors?!..LOL!!

  I can't quite figure out where I called for "taking down the Watchtower."

  Read the title of your own thread..LOL!!

  WHY are Watchtower leaders OBSCURANTIST and how can we fight them effectively?

  It`s about fighting the leaders of the WBT$..Take down the leaders of any organization and you take the organization down..

  That battle has already been lost..

  JWs love JW.ORG and the WBT$ GB Rock Star Popes..

  CALL TO ACTION

  At the beginning of this top I wrote:

  1. Understand what OBSCURANTISTS are and what they do and why.

  2. Decide if want to be effective in refraiming your identity (the label given to you) as an ex-Jehovah's Witness in fighting them.

  A call to action for What?!..To fight Watchtower Leaders!..It`s in your friggin OP!!..LOL!!..

  If you take down the WBT$ Leaders you take down the WBT$..

  The WBT$ Marketing Team has already Won the War..

  And now, let's be honest; who was doing the name-calling?

  You seem to think you can fight the WBT$ Leaders..

  You`ve already lost to WBT$ JW.ORG marketing Team..

  You made a call to action..

  Thats definitely Narcissistic,Self Indulgent and a waste of resources..

  "Terrys Army" isn`t going to beat the WBT$..LOL!!

  I'm afraid OUTLAW is over-reacting to his own strawman,

  No..

  I commented on your thread about Fighting WatchTower Leaders/the WBT$..LOL!!..

  Now you`d like to pretend the thread is about something else..AND..That I`m commenting on something other than the topic of the thread..

  .

  You write plenty of threads people love..

  A thread about fighting Watchtower Leaders/WBT$ wasn`t your best idea..

  Because..

  Your not going to change a JWs Mind..

  Who`s Happy where They Are and Idolize their Leaders..

  ...............................................................................................OUTLAW