Very impressive factories. Clean and well lit. Very impressive product.
"When China awakes, the world will tremble".. Napoleon.
China's New export drive - trains and rail systems
by fulltimestudent 29 Replies latest social current
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fulltimestudent
Gregor: It is common knowledge that China flat out steals patented western technology.
Indeed, it is a common charge, Gregor. But, did you have a particular legal case in mind that demonstrates that a Chinese company "stole" some other (western) companies patent?
I appreciate that international patent laws are a minefield, if you want to think of one, consider the ongoing Apple vs Samsung legal hassle. Apple wins in the USA and Samsung has won in other jurisdictions.
Did you also know that many joint venture agreements between Chinese and western companies contain clauses that enable technology transfers. Think what must be happening with GM's joint venture in Shanghai. Here's GM's statement from their media centre.
GM has 10 joint ventures and two wholly owned foreign enterprises as well as more than 58,000 employees in China. GM, along with its joint ventures, offers the broadest lineup of vehicles and brands among automakers in China. Products are sold under the Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Opel, Baojun, Wuling and Jiefang nameplates. In 2013, domestic sales of vehicles by GM and its joint ventures jumped 11.4 percent on an annual basis to 3,160,377 units. During the first half of 2014, GM’s sales in China increased 10.5 percent from last year’s previous record for the period to 1,731,282 units.
To make that many vehicles GM will have built a large supply train of smaller suppliers, all having to meet exacting GM standards. That means a very large number of companies and people will have been exposed to GM technology.
Now there's something else about patents that you should know. Generally, they apply for a set period and then expire. After that, the patent information is available to anyone. Second, you could ask yourself, what is the patent for? Is it a completely new idea? Or, is it for an improvement? It can make a difference if you seek to take someone to court.
More, some changes to a product may void the original IP.
Let me illustrate. Years ago, I worked at fitting out hotels. My employer, would make a buy-out list, and on behalf of the developer, talk to the hotel management tream and the Interior design team, about what they wanted. Usually they wanted the best? No problem, even if there were copyright restrictions, we knew how to get around it. We'd prepare a specification to set a quality standard and talk to some alternative suppliers - these companies all had advice on copyright law, and knew that perhaps a minor change voided the copyright. Usually we'd be able to discount the estimated cost by at least 20%, maybe as much as 50% (its amazing how much some suppliers want to charge when they think the are specified).
All quite legal, and it justified our fee for managing the supply process. Everyone was happy, the hotel management team got what they wanted, the I.D. team got what they wanted (nearly). Our client saved some money. And we got our fee.
But let me go back to GM in my next post.
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fulltimestudent
Continuing on in response to Gregor's complaint:
As I noted previously, patents expire and are superseded by improvments, so they have limitations in their value. The business trick is to maximise the profit you can make from the patented technology before it expires or is superseded.
I'm using GM as an example of how that might be done. GM is an example of a highly profitable and successful American company that has done well out of the Chinese market, by being willing to manage their technology transfer in return for access to the largest market in the world.
Here's what Forbes magazine had to say about GM in China:
10/11/2013
How General Motors Wins The Minds And Wallets Of Chinese Consumers
How did GM do it? Four ways:
First, by getting there early. GM’s first China venture dates back to 1997, with the formation of the Shanghai General Motors Company Ltd, or Shanghai GM, to manufacture and sell its Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, and Opel brands on the domestic market.
Second, by forging joint ventures with local producers. Local partnerships are very important for every company that expands its overseas presence. This is especially true in China, where local partners have close ties to the Communist Party (read Government) — which determines who will be in what business and for how long.
In all, GM has 12 joint ventures that offer the broad line of vehicles and brands sold under the Baojun, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Jiefang, Opel and Wuling brands. During the first nine months of 2013 as a whole, sales by GM and its joint ventures in China increased 11.1% on an annual basis to a record 2,312,418 units. Sales by Shanghai GM were up 14.9% year on the year to 1,111,129 units, sales by SAIC -GM-Wuling were up 8.1% to 1,156,778 units and sales by FAW-GM were down 0.5% to 41,063 units.
In addition, Buick sales rose 17.6% year on year to 606,330 units, Chevrolet sales were up 3.7% to 472,561 units, Cadillac sales increased 51.2% to 32,238 units, Wuling sales were up 9.8% to 1,087,591 units and Baojun sales grew 27.8% to 69,187 units.
Third, through localization. Some Buick models and some small Chevys, for instance, have been branded for the Chinese market. The same is true for electric vehicles, aggressively promoted by the Chinese government.
Fourth, innovation. GM is adopting China’s “commercialization model,” which brings new products to the market quickly.
As China’s GM President Kevin Wale put it in an interview:
“What China does better than any place else in the world is to innovate by commercialization, as opposed to constantly researching and perfecting the theory, like the West. When the Chinese get an idea, they test it in the marketplace. They are happy to do three to four rounds of commercialization to get an idea right, whereas in the West, companies spend the same amount of time on research, testing, and validation before trying to take products to market.”
The west's problem is that the world is changing quickly, and people, used to the world as it was, find it difficult to change with the world.
I believe that I can promise you that in 20 years time, the west will be seeking technology transfers from Chinese companies.
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Gregor
I was not refering to mega international manufacturing agreements with GM. The small developments in our technology are extremely valuable to the Chinese. I was international sales manager for a company holding a very unique set of patents for a specific piece of equipment.It was routine to be approached at trade shows by Chinese who would always ask for the tech. Specs. Our sales lit specs were not good enough. We knew what was going on and got their contact info. Always China. We never sent them anything.
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kaik
Modernization of railway lines in Eastern Europe is happening in the past 20 years. Similarly, Spain modernized it railways as well. There are plans lines for high-speed rail in EU interconnecting major cities. However, there there three main problems with European railway grid: different voltage, three major of them where German railways grid cannot serve outside Germany which is crucial for longer term; high density of the buildings along the railway lines, which is problem with modernization within large cities likes Vienna, Munich, Prague, and Budapest; and comepetion with low cost air lines. Railway is good for distances under 500 km which is enough between major cites, but not efficient on longer distances. Anyone who remember railways in Europe in the 1970s and 1980s, there is certainly huge improvement of rail lines in the past 25 years.
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smiddy
I wish they had these trains on the Bairnsdale Gippsland line in Victoria , maybe we could get to Melbourne in half the time more comfortably.
Thnx for the post fts.
smiddy
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Simon
So not just iPhone and plastic crap sold at Walmart then?!
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kaik
When I was a kid, my parents took me on "Orient Express" train that started in East Berlin and two nights ride it had brought us into Bulgarian/Turkish border via Budapest. They also took us for a train to Dalmatian coast to Split. I love trains. But train modernization in Europe will never achieve scale as in Asia due different tracks and voltage. Trains that comes from Vienna to Berlin via Prague have to change locomotive at the borders in Breclav and later again Bad Schandau in Saxony. I am not sure if the newest Pendolino needs to do that or German IC, but this is major obstacles for intra-continental rails from in EU from Brest to Brest. It is shame that years into EU intengration, the Europeans cannot even agree on this.
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fulltimestudent
A Chinese company wins the tender for the supply of new carriages for Boston rail. Contract includes local (USA) content and final assembly.
From the Railway Gazette
China Northern wins Boston metro car order
23 Oct 2014USA: Massachusetts Department of Transportation board voted to award the CNR MA joint venture of China CNR Corp and CNR Changchun Railway Vehicles a $430·2m contract to supply 284 metro cars for Boston’s Red and Orange lines on October 22. An option for 58 cars would take the value to $566·6m.
CNR said the order means it now has global coverage, having contracts in Asia, Europe, Africa, North America, South America and Australasia.
Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority had received proposals from Bombardier, CAF, CNR MA, CSR Qingdao Sifang, Hyundai Rotem and Kawasaki Rail Car, which were rated for technical and manufacturing experience, past performance, quality assurance and price. CAF did not meet performance guarantee requirements, while CSR was rejected on technical and manufacturing grounds.
CNR MA submitted the lowest bid. Because it is CNR’s first contract to supply heavy metro cars to the North American market, MBTA has negotiated a number of contract provisions designed to mitigate risk. Two manufacturing lines in Changchun will be dedicated to the project, a letter of credit will provide an additional $100m in security beyond what was required, and there will be a project office and regular meetings with MBTA.
CNR MA intends to invest $60m of its own resources building a final assembly plant and test track at a former Westinghouse site at 655 Page Boulevard in Springfield, which would serve as CNR MA’s US headquarters. CNR MA estimates the facility would create more than 150 manufacturing and 100 construction jobs. The contract requires 60% domestic content, minority and women owned business enterprise participation, and final assembly in Massachusetts.
The 152 Orange Line cars will replace the existing rolling stock and also increase the fleet by 32 cars to enable peak headways to be reduced from 6 min to 4 min. The Red Line order covers 132 cars to replace the ‘No 1’ series vehicles, and an option for 58 cars which if exercised would enable replacement of No 2 cars.
The new 100 km/h trainsets will provide capacity for an average of 15 more passengers per car, additional seating, wider and electrically-operated doors, four accessible areas per car to allow for ADA-compliant access even when one door is out of use, LED lighting, modern HVAC, automated passenger information, data recorders and CCTV with ‘live look in’ capability. The contract also includes spare parts, CCTV operator displays, gap mitigation Devices, LCD monitors, automatic passenger counting systems, and two training simulators.
The design process will take three years for the Orange Line cars based on China’s Type B and an additional 15 months for the Red Line cars based on the Type A. CNR will build an initial 12 cars in China. The pilot vehicles for the Orange Line are to be delivered in early 2018, with the Red Line pilot cars following about a year later. Production cars would be delivered at a rate of approximately four vehicles per month between winter 2018 and winter 2021 for the Orange Line and between autumn 2019 and spring 2021 for the Red Line.
The budget for the procurement of the Orange and Red Line vehicles is $801·3m, within a total project budget of $1·3bn, including depot expansion. This is to be funded entirely by state bonds.
Reference: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/china-northern-wins-boston-metro-car-order.html
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fulltimestudent
And in Brazil ... passengers in Rio de Janeiro will soon be travelling in these trains
Rio metro train on test in China
03 Sep 2014
The train is on test at CNR Changchun's factory.
BRAZIL: The first of 15 trainsets ordered for Rio metro Line 4 is undergoing testing at the CNR Changchun Railway Vehicles factory in China. In mid-October it will leave for Rio, with arrival scheduled for December. Deliveries are due to be completed in 2015, in time for the opening of the line in the first half of 2016.
The 16 km Line 4 will run from Jardim Oceânico in Barra da Tijuca to Nossa Senhora da Paz in Ipanema, with four intermediate stations. Ridership is forecast to be 300 000 passengers/day.
Reference: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban/single-view/view/rio-metro-train-on-test-in-china.html
