Present truth is the Truth. Past contradicting truth is also the Truth. Sorry. those statements are mutually exclusive. What if your wife decided to stick with an old truth instead of the new version? Before 1952 JW's were allowed to celebrate birthdays and it was the Truth. Have her try it now and see what happens. I've decided this religion is steeped in Schizophrenia.
The Present Truth is the Truth and the Old Truth is the Truth, even if they contradict.
by garyneal 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Darth Fader The Sequel
Thank you all. This thread has made me actually laugh outloud. ;-)
Darth Fader
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Terry
The CHIEF CLAIM made for and by the Governing Body (and FDS) is a huge claim.
1. Jehovah God, it is claimed, is going to Save OR Destroy humanity very soon based on each person's response to something important.
What is that something? It is a description of how each person must think and behave in relation to a government headed by Jesus Christ.
2. The facts about Jesus' government are contained ONLY in the published works of the Watchtower Society. Exclusively, this corporation and
its leaders are specifically guided to educate and enlighten the population of Earth concerning events in the near future.
3. This conduit of instruction from Jehovah--through the Watchtower Corp.--by means of a volunteer ministry dispenses only vital facts.
4. Persons who receive, believe, and accept this information are required to commit themselves wholeheartedly. It is a life or death decision.
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This is an OBJECTIVE claim evaluated by means of comparing what is spoken and written to real-time testing for the purpose of measuring
the accuracy and veracity of these claims.
TEST NUMBER ONE
1. It was claimed that King Jesus Christ began ruling in 1874 and would bring destruction of all opposers in 1914.
RESULT OF TEST NUMBER ONE
FAILED!
While several countries ended up in a war in Europe lasting 4 years, no such destruction of earthly governments took place.
TEST NUMBER TWO
2. In 1916 it was claimed, MILLIONS NOW LIVING WILL NEVER DIE. In conjunction with this claim, and End Point of 1925 was set for
the destruction of the wicked and the resurrection of the "ancient worthies" such as Abraham, David, etc.
RESULT OF TEST NUMBER TWO
FAILED!
Every person then living eventually died. Ancient men of worthy faith were NOT resurrected. The President of the Watchtower Society
admitted he made an ass of himself. Four years later, after this failure and disproof, a mansion was built in 1929 for these same "ancient
worthies" to live in. Instead, the President (J.F.Rutherford) who made an ass of himself moved in and dwelled there 13 years. No worthy man of faith ever lived there and it was later sold.
TEST NUMBER THREE
3. From 1966 through 1975 a worldwide push to inform the population of Earth of the "End of 6,000 years of human existence"began and millions of
books (THE TRUTH THAT LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE) were sold (Guiness Book of World Records). The End Date for this event was 1975. Marriage, Education, Careers, everything were set aside.
RESULT OF TEST NUMBER THREE
FAILED!
3. Nothing happened and no announcement was made by the same Organization which had pushed every member
to the limit against an impending deadline. Eventually, this Watchtower Society run by Anointed mouthpieces of God, made the excuse
everyone who had listened to the repeated warnings were guility of reading too much into what was published! To this day, nothing has
been reported has to HOW this error came about, why it was pushed so hard, and what became of the ones who saw fit to make it the number
one priority of Jehovah's Witnesses. Oh wait--the man who was responsible, Fred Franz, was rewarded for this monumental failure. How?
He was made the President of the WTS!
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THE ABOVE is the "TRUTH."
It is a factual accounting of the way we test claims made by the Watchtower Corporation and its leaders.
IF JEHOVAH made them do it--Jehovah is a false God.
If they only THOUGHT Jehovah made them do it--they are delusional.
If they required millions of people to waste their time doing it and threatened DEATH for failure to do it--they are evil despots.
THE ARE ALSO FALSE PROPHETS.
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EdenOne
Interesting OT, I've dealt with this kind of mentality very often lately. It's sooo nerve-wrecking. But some good arguments are made here.
Eden
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jwfacts
Basically she is claiming it is the sincerity of her belief that is important, not the accuracy. Ironic, since the Watchtower repeatedly says thise in other religions are unacceptable to God regardless of how sincere they may be.
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3rdgen
You know the Isrealites who sacrificed their babies to Moleck HAD to be the most sincere people born. As God's chosen people they were in the Truth so to speak. Where did the individual Isrealite's loyalty belong? To the Truth? the King (organization)? or Jehovah? When I was asked that I was speechless.
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garyneal
Thanks for the responses everyone:
OneEyedJoe: Good for him that he discovered (or seemed to discover) the truth about the TRUTH and was willing to contradict the WT on its hardline stances.
clarity: They make their god out to be an idiot! He just can't get it right.
http://youtu.be/b0Sdh239AII?list=UUt0F0Z8zgodYfIEKMvzXW6w
That's what they do with their ever changing doctrine rather than admit that they are wrong and 'stumble' witnesses who hold the GB in such high esteem. Helps keep them in power for after all if the governing body was wrong about something, what else are they wrong about? If THEY can be wrong about some things, why rely on them for Bible interpretations when I can simply read and interpret it for myself? Witnesses questioning like that are dangerous to the organization. Therefore, suppress it by saying that it was Jehovah revealing his new light and the GB doing research while maintaining that the GB are not inspired in anyway.
http://youtu.be/nTvT7Cdveto?list=UUt0F0Z8zgodYfIEKMvzXW6w
OneLastKiss: I made a similar point when I questioned whether or not truth is simply what someone believes to be true. But, when it comes to the churches of christendom, they must examine and accept the evidence like the witnesses do. Therefore, it is hard to nail down whether or not truth is subjective or objective by her reasoning.
Theredeemer: Sounds a little like confirmation bias to me but from what I gather in the reviews from here of the WT printing stuff that lead up to any doctrinal changes it may be systematically planned and intended by the GB. It is easier for the new light to go down if they have been priming their followers for it in very subtle and subliminal ways. Just my two cents.
Crazyguy: That would've been the gist of what I was leading the conversation to if truth is merely as subjective as she was heading until she pulled that switcharoo when I asked if truth is merely what someone believes. Then she had to throw in the 'follow the evidence' thing for other churches.
Ucantnome: Well, that reasoning can apply to anyone who claims to be a part of the body of Christ. Therefore, perhaps witnesses would be wise to follow Crazyguy's advice and stay home on Saturday mornings since Christians claiming to be part of the body of Christ are also in the 'truth.'
Heaven: So true, and also keep in mind that Charles Russell would even disagree with my title for this thread:
"A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it." Charles Russell in Zion's Watchtower, Feb. 1881, p.3
"It is a serious matter to represent God and Christ in one way, then find that our understanding of the major teachings and fundamental doctrines of the Scriptures was in error, and then after that, to go back to the very doctrines that, by years of study, we had thoroughly determined to be in error. Christians cannot be vacillating - 'wishy-washy' - about such fundamental teachings. What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgment of such persons?" WT 5/15/76 p.298
3rdgen: It does negate its claim to having the truth for any rational person who has not bought into it.
Darth Fader: The whole concept is a laugh riot. Glad you got a good laugh from it.
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garyneal
Terry: Good points all of them.
I recall during my angst when I was attempting to find out what religion is really true, well what Christian religion since I never considered any others, I asked the elder who I was studying with to come to my house to talk about it. Specifically, I wanted to know how he knew the WT religion was the one true religion. The conversation was pleasant and I recall telling him that I used to watch Jack Van Impe Presents regularly and was actually impressed with him for a while. Then I commented that Jack made a mistake that costed him his credibility in my eyes when he attempted to estimate the year of Christ's return being somewhere around 1998 which obviously did not occur. It was then when the elder mentioned 1975 and how witnesses believed the end of this system was going to occur then. My response, "That did not shake your faith for it certainly would've shaken mine?" He responded by saying that it was the overzealousness of the witnesses that caused them to believe that 1975 was significant and nothing that the WT actually did. Granted I later found the WT or Awake article (Oct 1969 I do believe) that certainly gave the impression that there could be something significant about this year though it never actually stated (in print) that the old system would've passed away that year.
The CHIEF CLAIM (those four premises you lead with) were something that I had seen similarly before amongst the Independent Fundamental Baptists churches that I had been attending back in those years I was watching Jack Van Impe Presents. They too, made similar claims that they had the only true teachings that lead to everlasting life and required similar commitments to the church's teachings and practices. They lost their credibility when the preacher's hard line stances began encroaching on things like children living at home past the age of 18 (I was 21 at the time still living at home), preaching urban legends as biblical truths (like P&G being run by satanists or the BEAST of Revelations being a supercomputer in Belgium), or him preaching that visiting other churches that you weren't a member of was the same as committing adultery against your home church. He backpedalled on that one in a most hilarious way when I reminded him of that comment later when he invited me to visit his church after I had left it and joined a southern baptist church.
I guess I can say that being exposed to the IFB's and later seeing through their bullshit helped immunized me somewhat to the witnesses teachings though it did take me some time and research to recover from almost being pulled in by them.
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garyneal
EdenOne: Nerve racking indeed.
jwfacts: Yes, that has been the point that I repeatedly make when she criticizes other churches. Strange thing is, I don't really attend church anymore and yet I find myself defending them when she makes broad generalizations about them. She claims to be an authority on church teachings and practices though she never actually examined church teachings outside of the WT teachings and have only attended a few services with me when I was attending more regularly. Everytime she attended I recall how she would almost always contradict whatever was being preached. Ironic considering how she and the other witnesses I was studying with expected me to be open minded to other points of view while they kept their minds closed to mine.
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silent
What is truth is truth. What you perceive as true or what you believe is true does NOT change what is factual or truth. What you believe can be found to be in error, but just because you believe it to be true, does not make it so.
What burns my hyde, is that you personally can believe something to be true and if it's different from what the WBTS teaches, you can be disfellowshipped for it. If THEY decide to change the belief or what THEY perceive to be the new truth/new light, they can spout it out, print millions of copies of it, change the belief, no apologies given for previous WRONG understandings, and walk away scott-free for the very things the rank and file can be DF'd for. If all that's required is your sincerety, then it's no different from Christendom because they are just as sincere about their beliefs.
It's not the change in beliefs that upsets me per se, but when people put their entire faith in this organization and hang on every single word from the WBTS because that's what good little JWs do, there are a lot of lives being seriously affected and negatively. People have given up everything to go to Bethel only to be sent packing with nothing and starting over. People doing menial cleaning jobs in their 50s and 60s and struggling to get by when all they would have had to have done is do a 2 or 3 year trade school to get a better paying job. I grew up scared to death Armageddon was going to occur by the year 2000 due to the January 1989 WT Study article. I still have flashbacks and anxiety attacks from this Armageddon-obsessed religion to this day and have had to see therpists and been on numerous anti-depressants.
As I get older, I've observed that the JWs who are the most successful at what they do have all of these things in common:
1) They attend almost all the meetings
2) They go out in field service regularly
3) They don't pay close attention to what's being said nor do they bother to apply any of it.
4) Mind their own business and are savvy enough to not to tell other people, especially JWs, what they do in their personal lives - especially things involving business practices and medical procedures.
5) Anything in this system is okay as long as you put a biblical spin on it. (For example, it's okay to go to college *IF* you are wanting a family and wanting to follow the Bible's admonition to be able to provide for yourself. If you go to school to get rich and have lots of money, then it's wrong. It's okay to spend time with worldly people if you are having a Bible study with them or witnessing to them whether you really are or not, etc.)
Pretty much anything with business and fiances is okay as long as you frame it around "providing for oneself or for the family."
Those JWs who really struggle with this religion are those who really try, really pay attention, and hang on every word - trying so hard to make sure to do what's right, trying to manifest a humble attitude and then paying the price for it. I think the trick is not to try so hard and in the end, realizing lowered expectations breeds happiness. You almost just have to have the mind of "pretending" to go along with it because you are doomed if you take it too seriously. You'll never do enough or never be good enough, because no matter how hard you try, what more can you do? Heck, if all you do is 1 hour of door to door a month, any month where you spend 2 hours in door to door - you've doubled your time and obviously your efforts! Let's see a 60-hour pioneer double their time one month!