I'm trying to find the WT instructions for this procedure. Extensive Googling brings up Watchtower 1944 May 15 p.151 as the reference. However, that's all. Anyone able to look up the reference? My WT CD only goes back to 1950.
When elders became the disfellowshippers instead of the entire congregation.
by tim hooper 12 Replies latest watchtower bible
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stuckinarut2
Good point Tim.
Im not sure of the references...but I know that the scriptures use the expression "bring them to the older men" and that the 1st century cong referred to the older men and even the ones in jeruselem.
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Divergent
Another reference is the account of Ananias & Sapphira where they were judged by the apostles
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lambsbottom
Not sure of the timeline.
However, I can say for sure that:
Any removal from the congregation was likely done with the consensus and within the view of the entire congregation. Definitely not behind a closed door with no witnesses allowed. Furthermore, let us remember that Paul was an Apostle and directly commissioned by Jesus Christ. So, even if Ananias & Sapphira were judged by the Apostles and not the congregation, it is because they were directly commissioned by Jesus. Are the Elders, COs, or GB judging with the same authority of the Apostles?
Remember, the Apostles all DIED, leaving the NT as God's last final authority on spiritual matters. If the GB is going to say they are the same as the first century GB, they will eventually have to say they are equivalent to Apostles. I mean heck, can you imagine the first century GB writing a second letter, after Acts 15, and saying "Well, we changed our mind because the light became clearer regarding blood. But, don't worry, we are still spirit directed". LOL.
It took me a while to understand all this.
The JWs have made a complete 180. From the time of Russell, where the Catholic & Orthodox church was used as what not to do, to today, where the similarities are striking. Very sad. Catholics have one man deciding everything (claiming Apostolic succession), while the JWs have 7 men deciding everything and pretty much claiming Apostolic succession.
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hamsterbait
Paul said to reprove the sinner "before all onlookers"
now the Borg claims he meant only those who know about the sin. They have to give a local needs talk after a DF on the sin committed, no names mentioned, so everybody knows anyway- but mustn't talk about it, such things don't go on among Jehoobie's happified people.
Yet they condemned the Catholics for the unscriptural practice of excommunication.
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Divergent
Good points. Just to clarify, I was just mentioning the reference used by elders to justify their disfellowshipping individuals without the presence of the congregation, but by no means support it. In the account of Ananias & Sapphira, it is also stated that there were other younger men present at the scene who helped to bury both Ananias & Sapphira
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Vidiot
lambsbottom - "The JWs have made a complete 180. From the time of Russell, where the Catholic & Orthodox church was used as what not to do, to today, where the similarities are striking. Very sad. Catholics have one man deciding everything (claiming Apostolic succession), while the JWs have 7 men deciding everything and pretty much claiming Apostolic succession."
Not to mention that the irony is completely lost on the rank-and-file.
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All small authoritarian regimes condemn large authoritarian regimes whilst simultaneously emulating them.
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prologos
Disfellowshipping by small group of wolves?, it happened in the early congregation too. Paul? is supposed to have written:
" --They do not listen to our word, and even try to expell [ from the congregation] those that do--" can't find the place in the bible.
tyrants like to keep contol; the control groug [inner part] small.