by LoveUniHateExams 32 Replies latest social physical
Who but Muhannad Ali floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee?
Ali is a part of American history. His success is aligned with the success of Howard Cosell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO-P7VEUH8I
Has Tyson ever appeared on "The Odd Couple?" Actually, I don't think that Ali appeared, but Cosell appeard more than once. His success is attributed to Ali.
The last fight I watched was Ali-Spinx. I remember when he punched Spinx' jaw and the blood flew - his whole face moved. Like some other folk, I think that he would let Tyson tire, then BAM! Also, Ali would have the psychological advantage over Tyson, wayyy over.
What about Ali vs Jack Johnson? Now, that would be something. Same style of fighting, and, I believe, a more even match, both physically and psychologically.
There's a great documentary about the Ali-Foreman fight "When We Were Kings".
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Muhammad Ali was what he said he was "The greatest"...my boyhood hero.
He could lead with eather hand and most opponets psychologically knocked out before the bout.
He fought for many years and now saddly it appers to have cought up with him and it's a crying shame to see him in such a state now.
As far as Mike Tyson goes Ali would have danced around him and worn him down and knocked him out.
I loved his line to the draft board when he refused to go to Vietnam...."Becouse no Viet cong ever called me a nigger"
His other great line to Howard Cosell when he said to Ail before the rumble in the jungle "Ali they are saying you are not the same man you were 2 years ago"...Ali's reply " I spoke to your wife howard and she said you were not the same man you were 2 years ago"
I have 2 things in commen with Ali we are both Vego's and disleix.
Karter.
Simon, I agree with you that ultimately it is pointless to compare fighters from different eras for the reasons you've stated.
I also agree that Ali carried on far too long - in the Holmes fight, Angelo Dundee eventually stopped it after round 10 - disgraceful!
'Ali was top in a golden age of HW boxing' - this is the part that I'm still trying to work out.
Ali, though obviously great, benifited from one or two gift decisions. In the 3rd Ken Norton fight, it's hard not to feel sorry for Norton at the end when the judges somehow awarded Ali a unanimous decision. Every close decision of Ali's career went his way.
Ali also got away with a lot of clinching. This is illegal, and if done persistently can alter the course of a fight (such as Ali vs Frazier 2).
@talesin - I agree that Tyson and Ali, psycologically, were very different. Tyson might snap or give up when things weren't going his way, whereas Ali would most often find a way to win.
He was a smart man...he would wear down his stronger opponent. ..then move in. Dont like boxing but Ive seen his fights.
Muhammed Ali did me a huge favor.
I'll try to repay him here.
Six months before I was put in jail (and afterward, Federal Prison) Muhammed Ali raised the level of consciousness
on planet Earth about what a CONSCIENTOUS OBJECTOR was.
Unlike myself, Ali had the top Jehovah's Witness attorney of all time: Hayden C. Covington.
Covington needed the money, but he was a path-of-least-resistence kind of guy by 1967.
He wanted a quick paycheck by pleading Ali down to a 6 month to 2 year sentence.
In point of fact, the law of the land granted ALTERNATE SERVICE for conscientious objectors since 1953.
Ali was peremptorily refused that choice--but--on what basis?
There were 3 tests which might apply, yet NONE was cited by the convicting court!
His conviction was overturned unanimously BUT HE NEVER SERVED A DAY IN JAIL!
"Clay v. United States | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law" .
Ali spent THREE OF HIS MOST VITAL YEARS without fighting.
When I entered County Jail, rather than being viewed automatically as a "coward" or "draft dodger" I was seen to bask in the
sympathetic light of a Heavyweight Champion!
THANK YOU, MUHAMMED ALI.
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To answer the Topc Question:
A champion can only be measured by the quality and character of HIS OPPONENTS.
Ali went up against the BEST of all time.
That says it all.
End of story.
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If you pitted Mike Tyson in his prime against Ali in his prime you would have seen
the same kind of fight Tyson launched against Trevor Berbick.
But, this sort of "dream" match is problematic.
Tyson and Ali were opposites in every possible way.
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It is my considered opinion the ALI VS. FOREMAN match was a dishonest match in which
the ropes were loosened and something "funny" was sneaked into Foreman's water.
Compare the earliest statements by Foreman with much later statements and you'll have your
work cut out for you in squaring the facts.
Jose Torres, a great boxer and wonderful writer, wrote the book of books on Ali titled, STING LIKE A BEE. He tells the tale.
Get a copy on Amazon.
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Ali and Don King were a match made in hell.
He may as well have had dealings with Don Corleone of the Godfather.
A lot of bad stuff went on behind the scenes propping up Ali when he was way past his prime
but could still put butts in expensive seats.
The people who allowed Ali to fight when he clearly had lost all his skills but the jab--were avaricious, detestable, villains, imho.
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@Terry - your post makes some good points.
I, too, have read similar rumours re the Foreman fight - that Foreman was given a fluid that tasted, in Foreman's words, 'medicinal'. Athough this sounds far-fetched, in an African country ruled by a complete nutcase (Mobutu) it is entirely possible. Also to be noted is that despite the tradition in boxing of giving the de-throned champ an immediate return (e.g. Holyfield/Tyson, Ali/Liston, Marciano/Walcott, Tunney/Dempsey) Ali didn't want to share the same ring with Big George a second time.
I agree with you that Don King is Mafia-like, a lowlife who exploited Ali and future boxers.
Ali! Ali!
If you want to see the dishonest verdict in action, watch ALI VS. SHAVERS.
Ali was equally matched in every way.
The decision went to Ali and as much as I adored M.A. I can't go along with that verdict.
You decide. Watch the entire fight right up to the end. Ask yourself who outfought whom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV03JMLXgQY
Also, look back on Ali's entire career and look at how many fights were "stopped" by the referee.
If the doctors clear the continuance and the fighter is game, the only way a fixed fight can be won
is by means of a sympathetic (i.e. bought) referee.
Ali's fights meant millions and millions of dollars unlike any fights before him.
As long as he was allowed to go on winning alot of people went on earning.
My opinion only, your mileage may vary.
