Is The Bible Now Obsolete - On Moral Standards?

by metatron 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  metatron

  Sometimes, I feel like my life has been summed up by a Grateful Dead quote: "what a long strange trip it's been".

  After many years as a Witness, I discovered that I worked with gay people - and that they struggled to pay a mortgage and had pretty much the same problems as everyone else. What was I concerned about? How does their getting married have any negative effect on my life?

  I discovered that some women could manage a technical enterprise better than some men. Since heavy lifting or wielding a sword is not required much in our time, this should not be surprizing ( I told myself). How many Witness women can read the phrase "husbandly owner" without the slightest thought about what it implies? (Say what?)

  And now a big issue: child sexual abuse. Some years ago, a former CO ( James Brown) offered a surprizingly candid comment about the Watchtower's problem with child molestation - they didn't see it coming and didn't realize that the general public would react so strongly to it.

  I think he was telling the truth --and that's the problem!

  The Bible seems to say little or nothing about this serious moral problem! How can that be?

  http://www.bibleandkoran.net/verhaal.php?lIntEntityId=38 (a long reference but it admits the omission)

  But wait - how about slavery also?

  It amazes me how the US Civil War struggle over slavery ever got started when in fact the Bible allows chattel slavery!

  How did Northern preachers 'go beyond the scriptures' to attack slavery when it was permitted by the Bible?

  So, this problem - of what the Bible actually justifies or ignores - has been with us for a long time.

  I respect the Bible as a unique book - which, more than any other, got us to the degree of civilization that we enjoy today.

  But in regard to child sexual abuse or slavery as examples, have we passed its standards by, as modern people? That it is obsolete?

  I could go on with regard to a number of topics but chose the above as the most obvious in that Bible standards fit a primitive culture but often lack practicality in the year 2014. The Koran works the same way.

  Ironic isn't it? That such profound advances in moral conduct come from 'worldly' governments, supposedly led by Satan -while those who 'stick to following the Bible' fall behind?

  You Bethel Lurkers reading this might want to think about that fact next time you hear the Watchtower offer any public excuse about 'following the Bible' whenever they get caught covering up child sexual abuse.

  metatron
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  cofty

  more than any other, got us to the degree of civilization that we enjoy today.

  We got where we are in spite of the bible.
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  talesin

  Well said, metratron. The Bible, and its moral codes, are passe. Actually, in most countries, they are illegal!

  It's true that the invention of the printing press and subsequent availability of the bible as a printed book, was one of the greatest contributions to modern civilization. It was the beginning of literacy as we know it. It's ironic, that. Kinda like how the JWS gained religious freedoms in the USA via the courts - but for their own selfish purpose.

  xx

  tal
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  metatron

  The greatest moral reformation of my day is the civil rights struggle - and that grew out of Baptist churches. It got help from Christian groups in places such as South Africa as well.

  Can we apply a "Goldilocks" hypothesis to religion and moral progress? Animism and Buddhism are too pallative and unmotivating. Islam is too brutal. Christianity was "just right".

  Religion is a big part of evolution.

  Anyhow, my central point is that we should not be surprised that this recent ugly topic of child abuse caught the Watchtower flat-footed. They had no 'slot' or reference for it other than 'fornication'. That's because of the Bible rather than in spite of it.

  metatron
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  kaik

  Bible moral standards were obsolete at the moment they were completed. Western civilization derives its laws and judicial proceeding from Roman Law not from biblical. This was already known in the late antiquity that fundamentalist and theocratic approach to biblical morality is not possible nor desirable. However, in past 1600 years in regular intervals came crazy movements that tried to enforce biblical standard upon society with catastrophic results. Christianity is in its substance oriental religion, which is not compatible with civic freedom and individuality, something that was born in ancient Greece and defined a world west of Jerusalem. Late antiquity attempted to compromise bilblical morality with reality creating this bipolar view on what is moral and what is wrong. Christians claims that they were always against slavery, oppression, etc. yet most of these ideas were copied by non-christian thinkers.
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  garyneal

  I remember visiting a church with my kids several weeks ago when I heard the pastor there say that his grandfather knew that God was against slavery. I remember whispering to my daughter in response, "He obviously never read the Bible then."
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  kaik

  Slavery is often the most abused morality issue to make Christianity look good by spreading lies that as a faith it had always opposed slavery. Of course this is not true, but this is monopolized by Christianity due private conduct of many anti-slavery clergy. Greek philosophers in Hellenistic era and Persian kings debated slavery and saw it as something moraly wrong. They were not Christians. This was also picked up by Romans philosophers who channeled this idea to the early Christian fathers. St. Augustine saw it as necessary evil and John Chrysostom as a confirmation of man's fall from the grace. Overall Christian position to slavery from among main denominations was lukewarm. Many early medieval kingdoms abandoned slavery for military reason, not for moral. There were anti-slavery bishops like St. Adalbert (+997), but Catholic and Orthodox church never took official position in that time. Slavery in kingdom of Bohemia was abolished by royal decree in 1092 because it was easier to create army from peasants than slaves. Church did absolutely nothing. Church wasd also against abolishement of serfdom in the 18th century, which was also ended by royal decrees (Joseph II in 1782) or by French guillotine (1789). Everytime I read how Church stood up against the slavery, where are the official acts?
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  Divergent

  I believe that common sense is the most important thing that a person needs when reading the Bible. Problems arise when people read the Bible without using common sense (Matt 12: 1 - 12)
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  Phizzy

  I had a conversation with an XJW relative, who still hangs on to a lot of JW thinking, and she came out with the old canard that "the world would be a better place if everyone lived by Bible morals".

  I immediately pointed out that the Bible's moral standards were simply not high enough for us in the 21st Century. I asked "We are not mysogynistic or Homophobic are we ? we do not condone Slavery do we ? " etc etc. She had to agree, and I was glad to see her young daughter thinking about what I had said, which was good, as she was wavering at the time about being a JW, she too has left for good now.

  Not just because of that conversation obviously, but maybe it helped, we should attack silly opions wherever we find them, I think.
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  punkofnice

  we should attack silly opions

  I'm all for that Phuzzy..........are they like silly onions only pea flavoured?

  The 10 commandments are crap. If they were given by a god then that god is a disorganised moron. God is the greatest or else.....Covert thy neighbours ass indeed!