by Simon 18 Replies latest forum announcements
Thank you for the hard work and sacrifices in facilitating this much needed community.
Just a few simple rules are keeping a great balance between order and freedom.
I love the inclusivity that results from permitting a wide range of views.
JWN has been a valued and important part of my journey.
Best wishes to all.
Annihilate button....that one made me laugh Hamsterbait
I don't mean to sound like a malcontent, but I have to say, I've been on a lot of forums in my day, and I've never seen one that is shadow-moderated like this one is. Posts and whole threads will disappear with nary a reason given, and the deleter is not heard from or identified. In fact, one cannot even (to my knowledge) view a list of moderators, and they are not identified by any title under their name when they post. So I don't really think people can be blamed for being curious or disoriented by the way moderation takes place here.
JW forums seem to have challenges unlike many others. It seems to be a by-product of people who've been taught all their life how to argue and that their view of the world is always right (against any evidence) coupled with a new-found rebelliousness against any authority.
We've tried the "explanation" for moderating and it doesn't work. What happens is you end up with an endless debate over the decision and people wanting all the facts which means it's impossible to actually remove the offending content.
Having content that violates the guidelines removed is not unique to this forum at all. We try and encourage and cajole when possible and not over-moderate but sometimes it's not possible - some people either get too emotional about something or else are simply here to stirr the pot. We actually get just as many complaints about not moderating enough as we do moderating too much.
If you don't like the way the forum is run then your recourse is to not use it. We value feedback but we're not getting into a debate about any decisions. I believe we try to be fair and give people a chance, understand situations etc... but that doesn't mean we're going to waste our time being jerked around by people who want to play games and that we're going to explain and spell out what may not be obvious to someone without all the facts.
It comes down to trust. You have to trust the people running any site that they are doing the best they can for the right reasons. If you don't then you really should just leave and find someplace you do. The fact that this site is approaching 15 years old suggests we do get a few things right and we do have some experience dealing with all sorts of personalities and have learnt a thing or two along the way.
That doesn't mean we don't make mistakes, again if you are expecting perfection then prepare to be dissappointed. I've never been afraid to stand up and admit if I've been wrong but it takes two people to get past a misunderstanding.
I don't feel that I've personally been treated unfairly by moderation but I do feel compelled to say something on behalf of many posters here who probably do not have much forum-going experience outside of JWN.
I have, however, lost dozens of posts that were made in threads that were deleted for unknown reasons. I don't know what threads they were or what I said in them or how long I spent saying it (some of my posts take 30-60 minutes to write). I only know something happened when my total post count goes below my last post number or I see my "Topics Posted On" list shrink -- but I have no way to know what disappeared from that list, which is 106 pages long currently. So that's an example of a practical concern of mine.
It comes down to trust. You have to trust the people running any site that they are doing the best they can for the right reasons. If you don't then you really should just leave and find someplace you do.
So basically we just have to trust an unknown group of people to have our best interests at heart? It's hard to trust people we don't know, who take actions that are not documented publicly. One cannot even see if someone is banned or for what reasons they were banned. I hope that you at least have a backend way of seeing what your mods are doing.
I'm not intending to sound disgruntled over all this, but I'm not sure what I think of the response that 'People have a problem with authority after their Watchtower experience, so the way to deal with their questioning of our actions is shadow moderation, so nobody knows who to argue with'.
I don't know what threads they were or what I said in them
There are two cases that may apply here: a topic can be so derailed and taken off track that it end up being deleted. Unfortunately when that happens then other people's comments go with it. I'm hoping to make it easier to prune things more selectively in future so that will happen less.
The other situation can happen when things are just 'spammy'. I've been going through the archives and unfortunately some people decided to trash topics by posting endless pictures of monkeys or plain gibberish and again the topics are then of little use to anyone so when they are removed your post count can go down.
Other times the topics are transitory and refer to an issue that is dealth with and simply makes no sense to leave up.
So basically we just have to trust an unknown group of people to have our best interests at heart? It's hard to trust people we don't know, who take actions that are not documented publicly. One cannot even see if someone is banned or for what reasons they were banned. I hope that you at least have a backend way of seeing what your mods are doing.
No, if something is removed then assume that I did it.
Whether or not I chose to post the reason why or not is my choice. If I think it's a mistake on someone's part or the rules need to be made clearer, they are changing or a reminder given then I will. Often times it would be unfair to focus on one person when it's several people involved so the notification may not be as pointed as you seem to require.
I think the reasons that people are banned are usually obvious. If you don't know what was going on then unlucky, this isn't meant to be a soap opera. If someone has demanded their account was deleted and is telling you they were banned then unlucky - you are being played. If you think I'm just being a mean bastard then unlucky - I don't really care .
Sorry, but that's the reality. If you don't like how the forum is run then go elsewhere.
If people spend that much time writing posts and it's that important for them to keep it all for posterity, than save it to word. It's like having conversations with random people on the street. You don't lament that you have no record of it to refer back to.
Or think of this site like a giant book in draft form made up of many short stories and Simon as the omnipotent editor. Writers get their words chopped all the time. Deal with it or find a new publisher, one who will treat every word written like precious gold.
Good luck with that.
I have been a regular, daily forum user for ten years.
Multiple boards. I even moderate.
~
I have no complaints with this group.
It makes me grin to myself.
