Orphan, are you saying elders submit statistics from individual cases up to headquarters, and they pass them on to companies that are developing blood substitutes?
Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society
by OrphanCrow 45 Replies latest watchtower medical
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OrphanCrow
pistoff: Orphan, are you saying elders submit statistics from individual cases up to headquarters, and they pass them on to companies that are developing blood substitutes?
Yes. They would have to - it would be part of the "package deal" in how the product would be able to be accessed.
The only way that HBOC-201 is available is by accessing it through the Englewood Hospital's clinical trial under compassionate use. Once a person uses HBOC-201/Hemopure, the patient's records are automatically used by the researching team - led by Aryeh Shander. That process would be admissible simply by the patient giving consent through the Advance Directive.
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Pistoff
The only way that HBOC-201 is available is by accessing it through the Englewood Hospital's clinical trial under compassionate use. Once a person uses HBOC-201/Hemopure, the patient's records are automatically used by the researching team - led by Aryeh Shander. That process would be admissible simply by the patient giving consent through the Advance Directive.
That is f**ked up.
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OrphanCrow
pistoff: That is f**ked up.
It always has been.
Fluosol-DA, the first blood substitute that FDA approved, made it to market through the use of the JWs. This was back in the 80s (*Nov 1979) and the JWs were deliberately targeted by the Japanese doctor who developed it as a blood substitute. The initial arrangements to use the JWs for a trial group was launched through the efforts of Dr. Ron Lapin and his JW co-horts - the early HLC fellows.
Fluosol was later taken off the market.
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TheWonderofYou
So Englewood received a sum to train military. Does this perhaps mean that the military surgeons were allowed to watch and to take part in J.W. patients surgery - especially in lifethreatening situations - as well? I simple ask because if I would be a J.W. I didnt want that an army surgeon would operate me. If such things happend, did the patients got a chance to save their life after support through a competent member of HLC by e.g. an alternative method, which could have saved life, so that the patient - maybe a children - could have been saved at Englewood instead of being exsanguinated?
Or let us hope that it was otherwise: That the Englewood surgeon operate together with army surgeons on NAVY and ARMY patients to learn for surgery for J.W. patients.
Most likely it was so that the Englewood team only trained theoretically - held talks in front of a board - about how to do it - and that there was no actual surgery and no patients of J.W. involved physically and only theoretically the patients data were discussed (what I wouldnt like either).
So the question remains to a certain extent: Were J.W. excepted from those trainings with the army, were they informed that such a cooperation existed, could they undersigned a form in which they could decide if personal data were given to army surgeons ?
Let us assume that for J.W.s such guidelines for the patients existed or will be made quickly e.g. whom the patient would allow to operate on it, I hope it because usually without money you dont get your private surgeon, the team will decide.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/188705/englewood-hospital-gets-4-6-million-develop-bloodless-medicine?page=2&size=10
Many witnesses and others look at Englewood as "proof" that modern medicine doesnt need blood transfusions- and that blood transfusion is a product of a unsophisticated past.
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OrphanCrow
wonderofyou: So Englewood received a sum to train military. Does this mean that the military surgeons were allowed to watch and to take part in J.W. patients surgery - especially in lifethreatening situations - as well?
Of course army surgeons operated on JWs. Englewood's bloodless program is primarily used for JW patients.
If such things happend, did the patients got a chance to save their life after support through a competent member of HLC by e.g. an alternative method, which could have saved life, so that the patient - maybe a children - could have been saved at Englewood instead of being exsanguinated?
You don't understand what is happening. The HLC would be involved in the patient's care through the entire process. The HLC would be working with the US army surgeons at every step of the way, including directing the JW patients into the program.
So the question arises: Were J.W. excepted from those trainings with the army because they would have been informed of that army-cooperation and could have undersigned a form that they wouldnt allow such cooperation in surgery with army?
I don't know. That also raises the question as to whether or not all those hundreds (thousands) of JWs, who have already been part of US Army funded studies for various medical procedures and products, would have been informed that their compliance with bloodless methods was part of military research. This is not a new phenomena - it has been happening for decades - likely for as long as the blood ban has been in place.